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Re: Is emdebian repo broken?



On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:59:58 +0400
"Dmitry E. Oboukhov" <unera@debian.org> wrote:

> 
> > Use toolchains from stable - THAT is where all the effort reaps rewards.
> 
> > Please don't distract people into trying to fix the unfixable.
> 
> > Stable is the priority.
> 
> I uderstansd that You said, but can't agree.

It doesn't matter if you don't agree - you're not the one doing the
work.

All the effort needs to go into developing a replacement mechanism
where the cross-compiler toolchains can be built ALONGSIDE the new
compiler versions by the Debian buildd infrastructure because then those
packages become subject to the normal Debian Policy which includes RC
bugs, delayed transitions and a whole team of people interested in
fixing the thing to allow their own work to proceed. It is a difficult
thing to get working and it requires a large investment in time. The
time to do that is right now, outside of a release cycle. It also
needs to take the whole Multi-Arch transition into account. The time to
think about cross-compilers for Emdebian testing is when testing becomes
important - during a freeze. There is no time left to worry about
cross-compilers in unstable.

Right now, nobody cares about cross-compilers in unstable because we
don't have time to waste.

We need to get it done properly, not waste time chasing our tails with
the never ending workload of providing stuff for unstable. Doing it
properly means doing it within the restrictions which you claim to
desire - RC bugs, release team control, britney migrations and the
rest. That can only happen if people stop moaning about the lack of
installable cross-compiler toolchains in unstable and allow those who
are actually doing the work to make progress in getting the
cross-compiler toolchains built inside Debian instead of only in
Emdebian.

You're deluding yourself. Cross toolchains and the Emdebian
repositories are outside of Debian and the normal Debian unstable,
testing, stable migration DOES NOT APPLY necessarily. We don't get to
test what goes into testing, we don't have the veto on what migrates,
even if it is completely bust. The whole point is that we need to stop
wasting time building stuff ourselves and leave Emdebian unstable and
Emdebian testing as broken to make the time to get the toolchains built
inside Debian so that Debian can provide cross-compiler toolchains for
unstable which can then be tested and migrate alongside the native
compiler - because then we DO get a chance to delay migration into
testing if the cross-compiler is fundamentally unusable. 

THINK ABOUT IT! Stop wasting our time here and let us get
cross-compilers into the very constraints you are trying to enforce. We
CANNOT do that in Emdebian, only in Debian.

There has never been any testing of cross-compiler toolchains that had
the remotest impact on what version of gcc went into Debian stable. We
DO NOT GET THE CHOICE and cross-compilers have never been considered
sufficiently important for Debian to care about what version gets
released.

> Stable wont't be able to be Stable if nobody can test Testing.

Stable will get whatever Debian allows into stable as the native
compiler. Cross-compilers don't come in to it. We get what we are given.

There is time to sort out testing once the Debian release freeze starts
and the flood of new package versions is halted or at least
constrained.

There is hardly ever time to fix unstable but it can happen as a
side-effect of fixing testing immediately prior to a Debian release.
 
> > fix the unfixable.
> 
> if this is unfixable it WONT be Stable.

It will be once there is time to fix one particular version without it
being replaced before it can be fixed. i.e. during the freeze.

-- 


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/

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