Re: emdebian development model
Wookey wrote:
I still disagree about 'worth anyone's time these days, ...except
probably in India', because we are a UK-based company and we're very
happy with GNU tools and a TTY, and none of our engineers have any
desire to start using a GUI. And I know we're not the only ones.
Totally agree. GUIs to me are like trying to write code with mittens on!
But I agree there is a significant set of developers who are used to
working this way and would find emdebian much more accessible if it
was presented to them that way.
So bolt it underneath Eclipse. Not much room for controversy here.
Just take a look at the Beagle board and Gumstik projects. What are the
serious developers using.?
I don't know - can you save me the trouble of looking and just tell us?
Well, I've got piles of both products on my desk as I write this. And
my BDI2000 is gathering dust in the corner.
"Serious" Linux developers--- even kernel developers such as myself---
don't find a JTAG adapter all that helpful once the system gets stable
and the hardware is wrung out. And we also don't like GUIs. Give me a
serial console tied to the bootloader, and I'll own the machine in short
order.
If I want to develop a GUI-intensive application, then I'll do it on the
PC first. I don't do much of that, turns out, so I don't know how
helpful a GUI might be to those guys. But those aren't the guys we're
talking about here, right?
It seems to me that integration with something like an eclispse GUI
(shudder) is something to be done at the board/vendor level.
Agreed. And it should target _application_ developers, not kernel guys.
Let the emdebian guys stay focused on giving me a solid,
Debian-compatible runtime environment that I can debootstrap. I
wouldn't reject packages that promote Eclipse compatibility, but I
wouldn't commit emdebian resources to that task at the expense of
something else.
I guess there is nothing to stop others doing this in GUI-world.
I don't know enough about this eclipse environment to know if it can
easily be put over the emdebian tools? Maybe that's something worth
doing? Anyone want to have a go?
It's a pretty trivial exercise, actually. The more challenging part is
adding the target-side resources that Eclipse needs to control a process
during development. I'm not all that happy with the current options,
which is why I haven't bothered.
Thanks for your input - it is indeed a slightly different perspective
from our normal one. Right now I'm not sure we want more users who
need 'finished tools' and GUIs - we probably need more input from the
sort of people who don't care about that stuff. But on the other hand
if stuff can be made easier and prettier then that is generally a good
thing, and does make our work more accesible.
What we need--- and what I'm working personally and professionally to
promote--- is developers that know enough of what they're doing that
they can choose a GUI for themselves, or not. If the GUI is the only
way that they can handle embedded development, then they're pretty much
doomed to failure long-term IMHO.
I'm not saying that one shouldn't pursue a GUI that newbies can use.
But recognize that it's a bigger problem than merely that.
b.g.
--
Bill Gatliff
bgat@billgatliff.com
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