Am 2007-04-29 18:33:50, schrieb Neil Williams: > On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:02:55 +0200 > Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@freenet.de> wrote: > > "embedian-tools". > > (emDeBian, it's about debs not beds!) > :-) It is now 03:27am and I should go to bed... If it is to late, I do not think on it... > It's a subtle difference but reflects how Emdebian is based within > Debian, not yet another embedded build system somehow divorced from the > rest of the GNU/Linux world. > > > I have NO Internet @home which mean, I will never be able to install > > "embedian-tools". > > That may well remain true for some time. > > I will sort out postinst to allow installation (if only so that other > packages don't get held back by an incomplete install) but I'm just not > sure how to then proceed in these situations - at least until a future > version of apt-cross. > > > But since I have a local Debian-Mirror running, > > I like to know, the exact URL to download the files needed to build > > a local mirror (I do this with some self-made ,irroring scripts on > > my Laptop) > > I don't see how that relates to cross-building - a mirror is a mirror > no matter what kind of packages it contains. It's not really a job for > emdebian-tools - or have I missed something? > > If you want a mirror, normally reprepro or apt-ftparchive would be the > tools to use. > > How is this local mirror updated? Is the lack of internet access > @home actually a firewall issue (i.e. the mirror has internet access to > remain up to date)? > > I'm confused by the discussion of non-internet usage, I just don't see > how or why these situations would be of *practical* usage in building > an Emdebian system. I would hope that most people would not expect to > be able to build and upload Debian packages on an outdated system - at > least not without expecting a series of FTBFS bugs. > > I can see that there would be *periods* when an internet connection is > not available but not a complete lack of any connection for the entire > operable life of the machine. How is a Debian system going to stay > updated without any connection at all? Packages built on such a system > would never be accepted into Debian itself and I'm at a loss to see > what use such packages would be to Emdebian (or even for my own > embedded device(s)). > > e.g. My iBook runs emdebian-tools and to continue building packages > during times when I'm away from usual internet connections, I > pre-arrange to download the source I need (emsource) and run a test > build (emdebuild) whilst an internet connection is available. That > ensures that I have all the dependencies that I need and updated caches > etc. Then I can continue editing the debian/rules and making other > build changes as well as running test builds with emdebuild until such > time as an internet connection becomes available again and I can run > emdebuild --svn. > > That is about the limit of what can be done in emdebian-tools when > there is no internet access. Sorry, but I don't see how this can > change, at least any time soon. > > > > The solution is to upgrade to testing or unstable which will, in > > > turn, require an addition to /etc/apt/sources.list to add a suitable > > > mirror. > > > > OK, I am running ALL three releases (Unstable, Testing and Stable) but > > which mirror should I add additionaly? > > ? emdebian-tools needs a Debian Primary Mirror, at least at the moment, > installation problems aside. So the URL you need is the URL of one of > the Debian Primary Mirrors. > > Until apt-cross and NorthernCross can be combined, I'm afraid a local > mirror will not work. There isn't a URL to do this job. Even then, I'm > not sure if we can get CD-support or local-mirror support such that > emdebian-tools can operate entirely without internet access. > > One problem is that the location of the file to pass to apt-cross > (actually wget called by apt-cross) cannot be identified from the cache > data currently available. I'm hoping that NorthernCross will help with > this problem. > > The second problem is that cross-building is likely to involve cache > files for individual packages: e.g. arm-linux-gnu.cache passed > to ./configure --cache-file. These are likely to need research on the > net to find the correct values from a native build. Even with a > complete Debian mirror, you won't have the contents of buildd.d.o and > you won't have access to the information you need to fix the > cross-building of many packages. Currently, most packages fail to > cross-build at the first attempt and many will need such cache files, > one for each target arch. In the scenario above with my iBook, I cannot > usually get to a usable build whilst entirely without an internet > connection. > > The third problem is the issue of building outdated packages on an > outdated system causing havoc upon installation and subsequent upgrade. > This is where I feel the biggest hurdles lie - I don't think Emdebian > should be encouraging such package builds. > > > My local mirror has currently ALL files from Buzz to Etch complete and > > this for ALL 12 architectures plus sources. Nearly 5 TByte of > > binaries and sources. > > There is no reliable method of detecting this situation in postinst. > Sorry. I tried many methods but it's a bit like proving a negative. > Debconf gets in the way with it's redirection of STDERR and apt won't > return the information I need without using the libapt-pkg-perl modules > which in turn mean getting apt-cross and NorthernCross to work > together and that is going to take quite some time. It's > not just a case of patches, it's whether a completely disconnected > machine should actually be running emdebian-tools at all. If this was a > bug report, I would be very tempted to tag this 'wont fix' because I > really can't see a way OF fixing it. Feel free to prove me wrong. > :-) > > It is possible that I can add an after-installation option in emsetup to > allow the user to specify a mirror that should be treated as a Primary > - with warnings that the user needs to know what they are doing and be > sure that the specified mirror does actually behave as a Debian > Primary. > > In short, I don't really know how to fix this, either with cdrom-only > or local-mirror-only configurations as I'm not entirely sure it is > even fixable. Even after installation and setup, emdebian-tools still > requires access to regularly updated Debian caches and I don't see how > a local mirror can replicate that without being connected to the > internet which then defeats the point of the fix. > > -- > > > Neil Williams > ============= > http://www.data-freedom.org/ > http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ > http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ > ------------------------- END OF REPLIED MESSAGE ------------------------- Hello, Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
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