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Re: emdebian-tools do not install with cdrom-only entries in sources.list

Am 2007-04-29 18:33:50, schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:02:55 +0200
> Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@freenet.de> wrote:
> > "embedian-tools".
> (emDeBian, it's about debs not beds!)
> :-)

It is now 03:27am and I should go to bed...
If it is to late, I do not think on it...

> It's a subtle difference but reflects how Emdebian is based within
> Debian, not yet another embedded build system somehow divorced from the
> rest of the GNU/Linux world.
> > I have NO Internet @home which mean, I will never be able to install
> > "embedian-tools".
> That may well remain true for some time.
> I will sort out postinst to allow installation (if only so that other
> packages don't get held back by an incomplete install) but I'm just not
> sure how to then proceed in these situations - at least until a future
> version of apt-cross.
> > But since I have a local Debian-Mirror running,
> > I like to know, the exact URL to download the files needed to build
> > a local mirror (I do this with some self-made ,irroring scripts on
> > my Laptop)
> I don't see how that relates to cross-building - a mirror is a mirror
> no matter what kind of packages it contains. It's not really a job for
> emdebian-tools - or have I missed something?
> If you want a mirror, normally reprepro or apt-ftparchive would be the
> tools to use.
> How is this local mirror updated? Is the lack of internet access
> @home actually a firewall issue (i.e. the mirror has internet access to
> remain up to date)?
> I'm confused by the discussion of non-internet usage, I just don't see
> how or why these situations would be of *practical* usage in building
> an Emdebian system. I would hope that most people would not expect to
> be able to build and upload Debian packages on an outdated system - at
> least not without expecting a series of FTBFS bugs.
> I can see that there would be *periods* when an internet connection is
> not available but not a complete lack of any connection for the entire
> operable life of the machine. How is a Debian system going to stay
> updated without any connection at all? Packages built on such a system
> would never be accepted into Debian itself and I'm at a loss to see
> what use such packages would be to Emdebian (or even for my own
> embedded device(s)).
> e.g. My iBook runs emdebian-tools and to continue building packages
> during times when I'm away from usual internet connections, I
> pre-arrange to download the source I need (emsource) and run a test
> build (emdebuild) whilst an internet connection is available. That
> ensures that I have all the dependencies that I need and updated caches
> etc. Then I can continue editing the debian/rules and making other
> build changes as well as running test builds with emdebuild until such
> time as an internet connection becomes available again and I can run
> emdebuild --svn.
> That is about the limit of what can be done in emdebian-tools when
> there is no internet access. Sorry, but I don't see how this can
> change, at least any time soon.
> > > The solution is to upgrade to testing or unstable which will, in
> > > turn, require an addition to /etc/apt/sources.list to add a suitable
> > > mirror.
> >
> > OK, I am running ALL three releases (Unstable, Testing and Stable) but
> > which mirror should I add additionaly?
> ? emdebian-tools needs a Debian Primary Mirror, at least at the moment,
> installation problems aside. So the URL you need is the URL of one of
> the Debian Primary Mirrors.
> Until apt-cross and NorthernCross can be combined, I'm afraid a local
> mirror will not work. There isn't a URL to do this job. Even then, I'm
> not sure if we can get CD-support or local-mirror support such that
> emdebian-tools can operate entirely without internet access.
> One problem is that the location of the file to pass to apt-cross
> (actually wget called by apt-cross) cannot be identified from the cache
> data currently available. I'm hoping that NorthernCross will help with
> this problem.
> The second problem is that cross-building is likely to involve cache
> files for individual packages: e.g. arm-linux-gnu.cache passed
> to ./configure --cache-file. These are likely to need research on the
> net to find the correct values from a native build. Even with a
> complete Debian mirror, you won't have the contents of buildd.d.o and
> you won't have access to the information you need to fix the
> cross-building of many packages. Currently, most packages fail to
> cross-build at the first attempt and many will need such cache files,
> one for each target arch. In the scenario above with my iBook, I cannot
> usually get to a usable build whilst entirely without an internet
> connection.
> The third problem is the issue of building outdated packages on an
> outdated system causing havoc upon installation and subsequent upgrade.
> This is where I feel the biggest hurdles lie - I don't think Emdebian
> should be encouraging such package builds.
> > My local mirror has currently ALL files from Buzz to Etch complete and
> > this for ALL 12 architectures plus sources.  Nearly 5 TByte of
> > binaries and sources.
> There is no reliable method of detecting this situation in postinst.
> Sorry. I tried many methods but it's a bit like proving a negative.
> Debconf gets in the way with it's redirection of STDERR and apt won't
> return the information I need without using the libapt-pkg-perl modules
> which in turn mean getting apt-cross and NorthernCross to work
> together and that is going to take quite some time. It's
> not just a case of patches, it's whether a completely disconnected
> machine should actually be running emdebian-tools at all. If this was a
> bug report, I would be very tempted to tag this 'wont fix' because I
> really can't see a way OF fixing it. Feel free to prove me wrong.
> :-)
> It is possible that I can add an after-installation option in emsetup to
> allow the user to specify a mirror that should be treated as a Primary
> - with warnings that the user needs to know what they are doing and be
> sure that the specified mirror does actually behave as a Debian
> Primary.
> In short, I don't really know how to fix this, either with cdrom-only
> or local-mirror-only configurations as I'm not entirely sure it is
> even fixable. Even after installation and setup, emdebian-tools still
> requires access to regularly updated Debian caches and I don't see how
> a local mirror can replicate that without being connected to the
> internet which then defeats the point of the fix.
> --
> Neil Williams
> =============
> http://www.data-freedom.org/
> http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
> http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/

------------------------- END OF REPLIED MESSAGE -------------------------

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
    Michelle Konzack
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
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