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Re: Buster manual

Hi Frans,

Sorry for the late reply. And thank you for your thorough explanation. Appreciated.
I understand that the Debian process is not as straight forward or as flexible as people (myself, at least) would like it to be. And, as it doesn't depend on you, Debian Edu people, I won't complain to you about it, of course. I can just show my surprise to see that the Debian guys seem to take documentation packages (a "handbook", in the case) as any other packages, as if they would have any implications on the system itself. To me, documentation packages should be the very last to get into the system, giving people the opportunity to introduce the last info on the supporting documents, to translate those last introduced texts, to accommodate translations of the manual to languages that didn't have translations before, if they get ready meanwhile, etc. But, I may be wrong of course, since I don't know the debian process.
An other point is the project on hosted.weblate. I'm surprised by the fact that nobody seems to have realized that if there is a "resource" (a "language") listed, very likely it'll be only a question time until someone clicks on it, and so people should be prepared to deal with it.
Anyway, I just meant to help, not to cause trouble. Help you guys by helping with making the manual available to more people, and help people who do not speak English to have the manual -- i.e., the info on how to use the system -- in their own "normal" language. Thus, you guys justdo what you have or need to do, it'll be ok for me.

Kind regards,

José Vieira

Frans Spiesschaert, Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:43:19 +0200

Hi José,

José Vieira schreef op zo 28-03-2021 om 23:22 [+0100]:
- while there is some ambiguity whether packages for Portuguese from
should be called pt-pt or pt, there is no precedence (and tool support)
for having pt packages for "African Portuguese" and pt-pt for
from Portugal, so I'm not fully convinced this is the right way
(It might be.)

             This one I don't understand. After all, the only thing I did
was to click a link. The project on hosted-weblate has the three entries
Portuguese, Portuguese (Brazil), and Portuguese (Portugal) and all I've
done was to click on the + sign next to Portuguese (which showed empty,
just like pt-BR) where a label shows "Create translation". If it's a
problem to have a version for Portuguese alongside the other two, I ask
myself what the hell is that entry doing there.
You should know that hosted-weblate and Debian are different and
independent entities.
At hosted-weblate it is indeed as easy as clicking on the + sign next to
Portuguese to be able to create a new .pt or pt-pt or pt-br translation
depending on what you want. Hosted-weblate uses the scheme "language
without further specification" (e.g. en, pt, nl, de, etc.), or  "language,
taking into account the peculiarities of it as being spoken in a specific
country" (e.g. en_US, pt_BR, nl_BE, de_AT, etc.).
Weblate is a translation tool that is used by several projects. Also
several Debian subprojects are happy to make use of hosted.weblate while
weblate is a "libre" (open source) project.
But when it comes to l10n and i18n the Debian project as a whole is less
fine-grained as hosted.weblate is. And yet the Debian installer
systematically asks the user to choose a language first and then a country.
The latter may be important for setting a specific language variant (if
available), but e.g. also for setting a time zone or other particularities.
As far as I understand it, Debian rather treats pt and pt_PT as kind of
synonyms, making it difficult to have two separate packages for .pt on the
one hand and for .pt-pt on the other. In
proposal to by-pass this difficulty, but I guess Holger missed that one.
Due to the upcoming release of bullseye and the associated freeze, not much
is possible right now. One possibility I see, apart from the proposal of
Wolfgang, is t ask for advise on debian-l10n-portuguese (
debian-l10n-portuguese@lists.debian.org), the Debian l18n mailing list for
Portuguese. Portuguese speaking people from all over the world share the
same mailing list. Therefore, that seems to me an ideal place to ask for
suggestions on how to cope with the problem we are facing. If you would
like me to, I am willing to review a draft email about this, which could
then be submitted to that mailing list.

- because of this and because we are very late at the bullseye release
cycle I don't want to introduce this at this very late state. We can
already consider us lucky if we manage to get new debian-edu-doc-pt-pt
packages added to bullseye at this time!
            Is there a sort of release schedule or timetable or whatever
that people can see and follow?
Debian is a bit difficult to understand when it comes to releases, because
it says that "a new release happens when it's ready". Debian has no fixed
release dates, but it aims at a new release every two years. The release of
bullseye is expected to happen within a few monts or so. There exists a
which means that it becomes more and more difficult to add new packages to
bullseye or to make changes to packages that are already in bullseye.

after the release is before the release and bookworm
will be much better thabn bullseye anyway!
          It seems you've missed some word(s). I don't understand what
you mean.
I indeed suppose that Holger missed some content in this phrase, but I
guess that he tried to explain that, given the imminent release of
bullseye, and given the lack of clarity within Debian with regard to
Portuguese, that it will not be feasible to have both a .pt-pt and .pt
package of debian-edu-doc in buster and that it would be good to take the
time window between the release of bullseye and the freeze of bookworm to
sort things out.
But this is my personal interpretation. I might be wrong.

Kind regards,Frans Spiesschaert

----- Fim da mensagem de Frans Spiesschaert <Frans.Spiesschaert@yucom.be> -----

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