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Re: dpkg feature implementation

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Martin Wuertele <martin@wuertele.net> wrote:
> Hi dE!
> * dE . <de.techno@gmail.com> [2010-01-05 14:25]:
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Martin Wuertele <maxx@debian.org> wrote:
>> > Hi dE!
>> >
>> > * dE . <de.techno@gmail.com> [2010-01-05 12:13]:
>> >
>> >> The developers and administrators will have to understand my point.
>> >>
>> >> This is the only reason why people refuse to install any Linux OS. I
>> >> really don't have an answer to these simple windows users when they
>> >> say "what about offline software installation?". Now I cant explain
>> >> them technical procedures to it, they'll happily reject it.
>> >
>> > As "simple" as with windows: get the CD/DVD.
>> >
>> Humm...I really don't know what exactly do you mean...can you please elaborate?
> Get the Debian CDs/DVDs and you have everything you need just like you
> use your MS Office CDs/DVDs, your AutoCAD CDs,...
>> >> Security and size problems of super deb packages will always be there
>> >> with such packages, this is a major disadvantage, but considering
>> >> super deb packages will remove this major drawback with Linux...it
>> >> think it's worth it.
>> >
>> > You can build any Package statically linked which pretty much is the
>> > same as Windows applications. However this introduces the security
>> > nightmare Windows has: 10 installed programs have 10 different versions
>> > of libraries statically linked and if a bug is found in the library
>> > you're mostly left alone as some vendors will provide an update, some
>> > won't and you can not be sure that all 10 applications are either fixed
>> > or the version they have statically linked doesn't bear the security
>> > bug.
>> >
>> No, this is not I meant by super deb packages...I mean a single
>> 'sdebp' package will contain many deb packages which are possible
>> dependencies of the main package to be installed.
>> This is just a small modification to dpkg to support these sdepb
>> packages...what it will do on installing this sdebp package is -
>> 1) unpack this sdebp package to extract all deb packages contained in
>> it in the apt cache folder.
>> 2) Run apt with the no-download switch on the meta package which is a
>> part of this sdepb package (the meta package can be specified in the
>> sdebp package itself). This will simply result in installation of the
>> meta package and will require no downloading since all dependencies
>> (relative to an OS) are previously present.
> This is not a small change to dpkg and is not really anything desired.
> If you want something like that you can script it yourself pulling all
> dependencies required to install a certain package, you could start on
> the code base of apt-offline for example. dpkg is a backend, there are
> several frontends like aptitude, synaptics,... what you look for is a
> frontend.

Humm...so this is more of a modification to the fontend...so I should
contact the apt team.

>> >> If this system is made to commence, all people who have refused to
>> >> install Linux is cause of it's packaging system (IMO, to all people
>> >> who have rejected so far under my knowledge) will have no problems
>> >> installing it. They don't have problems with root folder, nor the
>> >> mount system...they only have problems with this."
>> >
>> > I doubt's that's a huge number and that their arguments are based on
>> > good arguments. It's quite a task to keep a Windows system secure with
>> > all the (montly) updates without Internet connection and when you buy
>> > new peripherals (e.g. printers, scanners) and you happen to run XP you
>> > most likely want to dump the driver shipped with the hardware and get
>> > the curent one via Internet.
>> >
>> In a few nations an internet connection is not that popular. With
>> windows you can just download the updates, click and install...this is
>> an alternative way to automatic updates.
>> Doing this manually with deb package is impossible...with these sdebp
>> packages, you can pack a certain set of updates and just click on it
>> to run gdebi to upgrade...this will at least upgrade some packages if
>> not all.
> Er, it is just the same as with Windows: in every DSA-Mail you find the
> URI to the updated package. Download it just like you do it with the
> Windows updates, ship it to the offline-system and install it. I don't
> see any difference with regards to updates here.
> Yours Martin

Well, that was just an application. Personally I think distributing
updates like that is a bad idea.

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