AW: Debian Documentation
Hi there,
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Osamu Aoki [mailto:osamu@aokiconsulting.com] Im Auftrag
> von Osamu Aoki
> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2004 19:37
> An: Thomas Albrecht
> Cc: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
> Betreff: Re: Debian Documentation
>
> Hi,
>
> Please understand I nor any DD can fix all the small problems
> you find by getting this mail. We need your constructive
> help. We are all volunteer group.
> I really need German translator :-) Hint, hint, ...
>
I did not get the meaning of this statement I think. But yep, I know you
all are volunteers.
Because I'd like to help I am writing. I already offered help for the
bootsplash package but
I did not get any response.
Anyway. Just tell me how I am able to help, where to start reading so I
can learn something about
the process updating some documents (the most important part is... How
to know who is working on which part so
nothing will be done twice)
> On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 11:10:58AM +0100, Thomas Albrecht wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 10:23:12AM +0100, Thomas Albrecht wrote:
> > > > Hi there,
> > > > on debian.org i was reading that help is needed for the
> > > > documentation project. how can someone help? the documentation
> > > > seems very old (at
> > > least
> > > > the german one, the english one is a bit better, but
> still not up
> > > > to
> > > date it
> > > > seems).
> > >
> > > Can you be more specific about this.
> >
> > Some parts of the documentation depend on Potatoe.
>
> Are you talking about Debian Guide? It will likely removed for Sarge.
Well I was talking about the reference. But maybe this is already not
actual anymore.
When I started with debian the reference got many hints that something
is missing (the web reference and
Pdf version).
It's confusing that there is so many old documentation. Just my point of
view (just remember that everyone
started as a simple Windows user ;-))
> If you are talking about my Debian Reference, I mostly
> updated it in the latest release. This remind me to update
> web version on Debian.
>
> But "depends" is a strong word. Some context are written in
> an environment of Potato (without "e" since this is release
> code and American English) but for the purpose I wrote, it
> serves purpose.
Depends was definitely the wrong word. Sorry. Not my native language.
"Refers" would be more appropriate.
> If you are looking for installation guide, please go get
> installation guide. My installation guide was meant to give
> you release independent idea only. If you read it carefully,
> I think I declare it.
Well I don't think about an installation guide. The installer is good
enough. The additional information
is valuable, though (dividing the drive into partitions and such
things).
Maybe some kind of overview. Whats so special on debian and how will
debian support the user. I had to try
several different distributions 'till I found out that debian is the one
I like most because once it's installed
it very easy to maintain.
> > Other parts are marked as
> > "has to be updated" or "please be more specific"; something
> like this.
> > (Debian Reference)
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/reference.en.html
>
> As far as I am concernede, I intentionally made a bit vague
> so minor change in Distribution does not affect it.
Ok I'll check the docs again and post it. Or can I just work on it and
post the changes? How does this work?
>
> > If you read the translation its not exact the same version as the
> > original one. Its not up to date.
>
> It Document version are recorded in README.Debian. Actually
> it is pretty good for many languages. CVS version just
> updated some Chinese transdlation but ...
I think you are talking about some kind of debian packages. I always got
my documentation from web because I had no
Debian installed but I needed the documentation.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> FILE en fr de it ja es pl pt-br ru
> zh-tw zh-cn
> append 1.64 1.56 1.64 1.64 1.64 1.61 1.56 1.61
> 1.61 1.64 1.47
> copyleft 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9
> 1.9 1.9 1.9
> cvs 1.40 1.38 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.38 1.37 1.38
> 1.38 1.40 1.30
> debian 1.122 1.122 1.93 1.122 1.122 1.87 1.87 1.88
> 1.88 1.122 1.83
> edit 1.29 1.27 1.29 1.29 1.29 1.28 1.27 1.27
> 1.27 1.29 1.25
> gateway 1.239 1.209 1.34 1.239 1.239 1.215 1.34 1.209
> 1.237 1.239 1.30
> gnupg 1.22 1.18 1.22 1.22 1.22 1.20 1.18 1.18
> 1.18 1.22 1.18
> install 1.91 1.80 1.89 1.91 1.91 1.85 1.74 1.80
> 1.80 1.91 1.65
> kernel 1.65 1.49 1.63 1.65 1.65 1.63 1.56 1.61
> 1.61 1.65 1.51
> preface 1.41 1.22 1.30 1.41 1.41 1.31 1.25 1.25
> 1.25 1.41 1.22
> program 1.71 1.30 1.71 1.71 1.71 1.64 1.48 1.63
> 1.63 1.71 1.43
> support 1.27 1.10 1.27 1.27 1.27 1.26 1.18 1.22
> 1.22 1.27 1.12
> system 1.82 1.41 1.61 1.82 1.82 1.66 1.54 1.62
> 1.61 1.82 1.47
> tips 1.111 1.111 1.98 1.111 1.111 1.104 1.81 1.99
> 1.99 1.111 1.63
> titletoc 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25
> 1.25 1.25 1.25
> tune 1.171 1.168 1.113 1.171 1.171 1.113 1.119 1.156
> 1.156 1.171 1.113
> tutorial 1.87 1.18 1.38 1.87 1.87 1.18 1.38 1.77
> 1.77 1.87 1.33
> woody 1.42 1.35 1.37 1.42 1.42 1.37 1.37 1.37
> 1.37 1.42 1.35
>
> German is delayed but look at others.
Aye. I'd like to help you with the german one. Some parts of the
translation
sound some kinda funny ;-) If you translate american sayings or phrases
into other languages
its funny ;-)
> Some version up of document were merely addition of contents.
> Many bugs are fixed without full translation version update.
>
> > How can be assured that the different languages explain the
> same base?
>
> If version number are the same, they are the same contents.
>
> > > > How can be assured that old documents get deleted? when
> i started
> > > > with debian it was hard to decide where to start and
> what to do. I
> > > > was using
> > > the
> > > > gentoo documentation to get a better overview over
> linux... thats
> > > > sad. gentoo has one document for each system structure.
> so there
> > > > is only one place to start.
> > >
> > > Interesting
> >
> > So, what about a Link for Linux starters? It was very hard
> to decide
> > which distribution to choose, what programs to use.
>
> What is this? What URL are you talking about? Are you
> talking 4.1 Getting started in my manual?
Nope. I was talking about an overview of some specific distributions.
But maybe this
should not be a part of one specific distribution.
>
> > For example at first I was compiling the kernel the
> "normal" linux way
> > (make clean, etc.). Then I found out that there is an easier debian
> > way.
>
> My document goes:
> # 7 The Linux kernel under Debian
>
> * 7.1 Kernel recompile
> o 7.1.1 Debian standard method
> o 7.1.2 Classic method
> o 7.1.3 Kernel headers
Ok, found it. This i meant. What about mentioning in the beginning that
there are some debian specific
Ways to do things. To get an overview?
E.g. apt-get or make-kpkg. Or Debconf or dexconf, all these small tools
you find step by step?
> > Or software. In the beginning I got very confused about all these
> > different software names. There is so much you can choose
> from so it's
> > hard to find the matching software for your problem. It
> would be nice
> > to have a mapping
> > >from Windows/MAC/etc. software to Linux software.
> > At least an description how to find the software. When I
> started I did
> > not read the APT-GET documentation because I did not know
> what it is
> > used for.
>
> Maybe we need document like this. We simply do not have
> Desktop guide. But so what. We talk about "task" in my
> document and release manual. So you should be able to select
> Desktop task. Then you get full gnome and KDE support. How
> difficult is it to find those GUI application.
Ist not about the Desktop (well in the beginning this was as well
because I had no idea what a Gnome or KDE is ;-)).
More about specific problems. Openoffice i already knew from Windows.
But I could not found Nero. Or now to update your PDA.
How to watch DVD (what program to use) and so on.
Btw. This is not meant to offend you. Just my (maybe little bit confuse)
point of view ;-
>
> Difficult thing is learning CLI programs. We have tutorial
> section for people like that.
>
> > What about a startup guide. What is Linux, how to choose my
> > distribution
>
> We are Debian. We assume you chose Debian :-)
Hehehe. I see. Yes I think this should be not the part of one
distribution. But some kind
Of advertisement mabye wouldnt be wrong. Something what suse does.
What does debian provide on one single html page, with some nice screens
and so ;-)
>
> > (and what is a distribution), which install guide to use (not the
> > description itself maybe a reference), what programs to use, how to
> > manage my software (maybe with links).
>
> Have you look into www.debian.org
>
> > Just a simple single Page or document where you can start from.
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc
>
> > Maybe explain the support system - where to find help. and
> and and. I
> > got so many ideas when I ran into these problems ;-)
>
> http://www.debian.org/support
>
> > > > if i can help you with anything regarding the docs just
> mess me. I
> > > > have
> > > no
> > > > idea who to conact or how this process is working... thanks.
> > >
> > > If you send patch to the source to the BTS, I think it is
> likely to
> > > be included.
> >
> > Sorry, but what is a BTS?
>
http://bugs.debian.org
> And what documentation to change?
For example look at
http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#quick-reference
Then it is clear package name is debian-reference
BTS is at
http://bugs.debian.org/debian-reference
> The "leading"
> one should be the english one i guess.
In most case yes. Even one like mine is written by Japanese.
> But what about the things i mentioned above? If I'd like to create
> such a document for starters, can I simply do this and send it to you?
> how does this work? thx for help.
If send me a diff file to the source, I will apply it. After few times,
I will ask you to get CVS access (I give out write permission) and you
update yourself to cvs. My current development tree is at sf.net
See http://qref.sourceforge.net/doc/
In my honest opinion, I am not still sure we are talking on the same
information. I really appreciate more specific information with clear
change proposal.
Well maybe because I am talking about so many different things at once.
Maybe the smartest thing to do is doing the work step by step. I will
check the links you mentioned above and send some you some changes
About the translation and the reference. But I will start a new thread
because this documents containts too much different information.
Within this thread I will post some suggestions with links and so.
But first I have to reinstall my windows. I still could not migrate
everyhing to debian yet.
~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~
+++++
Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org> Brussels Belgium, GPG-key:
A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for
non-developers
: :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `'
"Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software" --- Social Contract
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