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Re: Switch default from PulseAudio to PipeWire (and WirePlumber) for audio


Am 13.09.22 um 18:17 schrieb Antoine Beaupré:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:17:23 +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 09:38:39PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
Should we repeat this mistake? Or put this differently: is there a pressing
need/compelling reason to switch to pipewire in bookworm?
I.e. what I miss from the proposal are the benefits of pipewire over
Can you elaborate why you'd want to make the switch in bookworm?

yes, I'm missing answers to these questions too.

The most pressing reason to ship pipewire in bookworm is to have support
for scrensharing in Wayland, from what I understand. I am not very
familiar with that part, so I'll stop there, but that seems pretty huge

Yeah, I "think" you are mixing up video with audio here (but I might be wrong, if so apologies). We already had pipewire in bullseye for this very reason afair.
The audio and video part are separate (to some extent).
What Dylan is suggesting, is that we replace the audio part (i.e. PA with PW).

If both audio and video is handled by PW, I guess some integration issues become simpler.

For me, the killer feature is that pipewire adds jack-like capabilities
to pulseaudio. This is really amazing: i've been able to use this to
help people debug their audio setups in videoconferencing by piping
their outputs into Ardour (or it could actually be any recorder!) and do
accoustic analysis there.

That would have been *much* harder to do: possible, but hard.

I also have the feeling that pipewire has already gone beyond what
pulseaudio is capable of in terms of Bluetooth support, but I might be
mistaken on that.

Interesting. What do you have in mind here? Supported codecs? AptX?
I had more success with PA in the past here, but that experience is anecdotal.

Personally, I'd rather see pipewire mature a little bit more before we make
the switch.

same here.

I think the timing is ripe. Ubuntu and Fedora switched already, so we
won't be the first guinea pigs. And if we *don't* switch now, it's going
to take *years* to shake off those bugs.

Another release cycle, so 2 years more or less.
What I tried to say here is that PA still to this day has a bad reputation and I think most of that is based on anecdotal experience.

And you *know* that people (like me) are going to try pipewire again
when bookworm comes out and then complain it "doesn't work in Debian",
and they will (rightly so, IMHO) blame Debian for not making it work

This puts less pressure on you, as maintainer, and pipewire as upstream


Well I guess I'd defer to the maintainer and upstream on that, but I
will point out that Pipewire maintainers *have* been careful about not
introducing pipewire as a default in *bullseye* in the past. If they
feel confident in doing so now, I would definitely trust their

Sure, completely agreed. I'd like to hear Dylan and Felipe's input here. So I've CCed Felipe as maintainer of PA, as I'm not sure if he's reading debian-devel. Afaics, Dylan asked mostly if we should do the switch. He didn't give any personal recommendation or preference. At least that's how I read his initial email.

I'm subscribed to pkg-utopia's mailing list and therefor receive the bug mail related to PW. Dylan is doing an excellent job in handling those. My gut feeling is though, that there might still be a few rough edges and integration issues that PA had years to deal with.

If Dylan feels confident to deal with those and Felipe acks the switch, then I trust them fully. They certainly know more about this stuff then I do.


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