On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 01:39:39PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > > > > > As everybody knows, Debian is also releasing the said firmware as compressed > > > > > archives and these are visible in the download page [0], however usage and > > > > > documentation is neither clearly documented, nor easy for the beginners or > > > > > casual users. > > > > (it's documented at https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04 > > > > for a separate drive, there may be some documentation about putting the > > > > files to the installation drive but at that point the user should just > > > > burn the firmware ISO) > > > > > > I know it's documented, but it's buried deep down. > > It's linked in the same yellow block on the page you linked as the archive > > itself. > > I mean, I agree it's not good but most of places on debian.org that are > > related to downloading are not good. At least > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ > > is now just two clicks away from the main page. > > Again, I think two clicks is too deep. A newcomer doesn't have to know the > difference between all the files there. We're having this discussion because > I see that the current amount of friction is seen as detrimental, and I > agree. Yes, my position was always "the only ISO link on the main page should be the firmware netinst" but I understand that it's a minority one. > > > In my ideal world (for newcomers), the link should produce the file > > > directly, not the directory, or they get the tool, insert a USB drive, and > > > viola. > > They should just get the firmware ISO and burn it instead of fiddling with > > all of that. > > "The user shall do X" is not a very correct standpoint either. Even if we > decide to add the firmware somehow into the "Official" ISOs, I still believe > having a simple tool to do all of that is beneficial for new starters. Providing a free ISO and a set of stuff to make it usable is strictly worse (from the usability perspective) than providing a usable ISO right away, and we even build the usable ISO already, we just hide it and surround it with obsolete/hypocritical/outright false words, such as "For convenience for some users, this unofficial alternative build includes non-free firmware for extra support for some awkward hardware." > If we want to have more new users or entice people who're starting to > use/try Linux, initial barrier should be lowered. I agree and I don't see why this should be done with a set of additional tools instead of a directly usable ISO. -- WBR, wRAR
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