Hi,Firstly, I was notidied via mail that the message was initially private (but it was not, if I understand what you say, and since I read it). I am sorry for this as your thread should have been private and would not have created such situation. I would not have had any feedback if it had been private, sure.
Secondly, and I let others CT members confirm or not, the author of this message is now under attention, so that such facts do not happen again. I am not sure anymore (so much things happent last week about mailing lists), but the person may be under a possible ban or ban by listmasters. If he is not, the mail I sent requested him to stop, and if he does not, actions needs to be taken categorically.
Anyway, even if we struggle against transphobia, and that is a central point of our CoC and our general action as a CT, when the public mails become insulting, with words such as "shit" or others personal injures, are not acceptable anyway. Even if such a tone defends a minority, it does not help Debian to be a welcoming community. The good thing is to report such mails, in particular when becoming public, and ban the person who is author of such attacks against transphobic or any other form of diversity.
So my mail was not to support any attack against diversity but to stay in a welcoming environment, choosing words, or ignoring, and preferring reporting to the relevant teams (listamsters, CT, etc) instead of making escalation of words publicly. the context is already very flamish, so I hope we can avoid to add still flames by tone, and prefer addressing such mails, indeed unacceptable, privately and via the typical Debian processes.
regards Jean-Philippe MENGUAL Debian Developer non uploading Community team member Accessibility team member debian-l10n-french team member President of Debian France non-profit organization Le 06/04/2021 à 00:58, Steve Langasek a écrit :
Hi all, After some long thought, I believe this message warrants a public response (and discussion). The facts are these: - an individual who is not part of the Debian community sent me (and other people) a private, unsolicited email sharing his views on the current topic of the day. - I responded, privately, telling him exactly what I thought of him and his views. - He in turn forwarded my private responses to a public mailing list without my consent. The response by Jean-Philippe, a member of the Debian Community Team, was a call for de-escalation and civility "by both sides"; i.e., tone policing. While I am no oppressed minority who is going to be turned away from Debian as a result of such tone policing, a member of the Community Team tone policing an ally who is categorically rejecting transphobia sends a very bad message to trans members of our community. It shows that responding to transphobes by communicating using strong language that the Debian community rejects their views leaves one potentially subject to censure from the Community Team. I think the Community Team should do better. On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:21:32PM +0100, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL wrote:Hi, Please descalate, it is an emergency. The RMS debate is very difficult for many people I guess, painful or, at least, energy consumer. It often results to ghoughts about the compliance of some mails with the code of conduct. But those 2 mails are clearly not acceptable from the formal point of view. You cannot let yourself dominate by your badest feelings, injuring each other etc. I am sure that is completely out of the code of conduct. Be respectful, avoiding to say words such as "shit" "fuck" "fascist", and please try staying moderated. Debian will be a welcoming community if anyone can express his opinons politely and others reply politely, with respect, even if he disagrees. So really, descalte! If the thread is so abrasive, just don't reply, ignore, I am sure it will not change your daily life in your team or in the project. Or wait some hours before doing it. But again, such wordings are unacceptable, regardless the topic itself and the ideas. Keep in mind you speak publicly and your mails stay in archives forever. Thanks in advance Regards Jean-Philippe MENGUAL Debian Developer non uploading Community team member Accessibility team member debian-l10n-french team member President of Debian France non-profit organization Le 26/03/2021 à 20:22, Michael Shigorin a écrit :On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:23:21AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:14:16PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote:On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:18:19AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:You absolutely have NO right to speak for all of the community..so do go and apologize for the attempt in public.And I tell you that you're humanophobic by claiming someone is "transphobic".Fuck off, nobody asked you for your shitty fascist opinion.It's *you* who's a fascist here. Go read the definition and look at what *you* do....e.g., http://dictionary.com/browse/fascismBoth of my grandfathers actually fought Nazi and Japanese invaders. Looks like none of yours ever confronted them -- they would have raised you a human, not a fascist.But you will learn the hard way.Good luck.Not very good at fucking off, are you?Yep. Jonathan, I hereby demand that the Debian Project gets rid of this manipulative, insultive, divisive and libelous member. He (them? it?) can't even stand by the rules (pro|im)posed. I'm considering providing financial support to Chris Punches and asking him to not omit suing Steve Langasek by chance: http://web.archive.org/web/20210326090023/https://github.com/rms-open-letter/rms-open-letter.github.io/issues/2250 (of course the issue was deleted, mindless as it could be).