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Re: OpenStack release & Debian [was: What to do when DD considers policy to be optional?]

On 4/9/20 6:09 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> Yep, at the moment it's running around the 3-year mark where the
> community ceases to be able to maintain extensive integration
> testing any longer

3 years is already helping a lot. I clearly remember a few Debian
release ago that the OpenStack release being in the frozen next Debian
went EOL before the Debian final release!

> for example I anticipate an interest in expiring releases
> prior to the current one a bit faster because it will mean not
> having to continue supporting Python 2.7 within the test
> infrastructure for as long.

What does it mean for let's say Rocky? (which is fully Python 3 in
Debian already)?

> Some public
> providers are basically deploying from master or at least upgrading
> to the released versions by/on release day (I'm a happy customer of
> one of them and they even use Debian, though I think they're
> deploying from source with Ansible so not using the OpenStack
> packages you're maintaining).

I know who you're talking about! :)
The thing is, I also offer the latest release with packages on the day
of the OpenStack release, through backports using the packages available
on the debian.net domain or with Sid. Though deploying from master still
feels a bit crazy to me!

> I get that the software is still changing far faster than is
> comfortable for LTS GNU/Linux distribution release cadences, and
> more recent improvements like support for "fast-forward" upgrades to
> get between noncontiguous major releases are only a half measure.

It'd be nice if we had the "fast-forward" thing support for at least 5
releases, so we'd get our ass covered for distros like Debian and
Ubuntu. But I understand it's probably too much of a technical debt
upstream. Being able to "jump" one version is already very nice for all
our users (and as I wrote, the Debian OpenStack still keep preciously
all OpenStack releases backports to stable for people to upgrade...).

> I still hold out hope that as the software matures (it's only 10 years
> old now, which is relatively young compared to other ecosystems its
> size), things will continue to stabilize and become more viable in
> traditional distro packaging realms.

I very much think it's the case that OpenStack has matured. At $work
however, we still are bit by corner cases. Like recently: unclean live
migration lead packets being routed to the wrong compute node, and iSCSI
volumes being exported to the wrong compute as well! Lucky, my
colleagues are skilled enough and found the way to fix the db (but not
the code ... yet!).

> The work you're doing to keep
> up with it in Debian is massive, and I can't thank you enough for
> that. Please do know that it's greatly appreciated!

Thanks! :)
I'm looking forward for OpenStack Ussuri to be released. I'm already
up-to-date with all the artifacts for it uploaded to Experimental! :)


Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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