Re: Please stop hating on sysvinit (was Re: do packages depend on lexical order or {daily,weekly,monthly} cron jobs?)
Philipp Kern - 08.08.19, 14:48:48 CEST:
> On 2019-08-08 14:43, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 08, 2019 at 02:35:13PM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> >> And there’s the problem. If we keep with sysvinit as a baseline of
> >> features provided by the init, we end up with just every init
> >> script
> >> having something like this: [...]
> >
> > it seems several people in this thread have missed the fact, that
> > sysvinit in Debian is maintained well again, eg there have been 17
> > uploads of it so far in 2019, see
> > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sysvinit/news/
> >
> > (so I think the above fixes could all be made in one central place.)
>
> As a lot of the conflict between sysvinit and systemd was about the
> philosophy. So then the question boils down to what kind of feature
> development sysvinit *in Debian* is willing to do to do that. If the
> answer is "we really want the shell scripts as they have been since
> the beginning of time - and that is the scope of sysvinit" (which
> would not be true either, I know), then we cannot have that
> discussion either.
>
> That's also to some degree why I think a solution to this problem is
> for the init diversity folks to figure out and we should not block on
> that. And that seems fine given the scope they have set for
> themselves.
I'd like to mention that people in the debian init diversity group not
only work on sysvinit, but also on runit, elogind for example.
I believe there is not need to resolve the difference in philosophy. I
switched all my systems to sysvinit meanwhile. One is on OpenRC. And so
far I do not miss any features and enjoy the predictability. Probably
only restarting services on failure – runit / s6 provide that. thinkfan
fails sometimes for example, but with Systemd I did not even notice it.
I prefer when whatever manages services to be invisible and I prefer
policy to be in code I can easily review as an admin of my system.
So for me: No new features is actually a good thing. Software
development got faster and faster and faster… but did things really get
better? They for sure got more complex and more difficult to understand.
I bet it again it depends on different view points. And so there is a
benefit to just agree to disagree. Sysvinit does not need to become like
Systemd or vice versa.
Of course I do not object careful development of a feature here and
there… and I am considering to switch to an init system that can restart
services for my main laptop as well. Maybe runit, maybe… let's see. It
has no urgent priority tough.
Thanks,
--
Martin
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