Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped
- To: Ian Jackson <email@example.com>, Philipp Kern <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Cc: Seth Arnold <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, Jeremy Bicha <email@example.com>, "Christian T. Steigies" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Subject: Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped
- From: Guillem Jover <email@example.com>
- Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 03:12:20 +0100
- Message-id: <[🔎] 20180212021220.GA24590@gaara.hadrons.org>
- Mail-followup-to: Ian Jackson <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Philipp Kern <email@example.com>, Seth Arnold <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com, Jeremy Bicha <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "Christian T. Steigies" <email@example.com>
- In-reply-to: <[🔎] firstname.lastname@example.org> <[🔎] email@example.com>
On Fri, 2018-02-09 at 12:01:46 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Seth Arnold writes ("Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped"):
> > tar will treat a filename with : in it as a command to connect to a remote
> > machine via rsh and execute /etc/rmt remotely:
> > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/Manuals/tar/html_node/tar_127.html
> > The git repo shows that GNU tar had --force-local in 1994 (f_force_local):
> > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/tar.git/commit/?id=d3fdd8259b1dd0e5ec05d1540b10d2deba7cc864
> > Perhaps not using colons in filenames directly comes from not wanting to
> > require --force-local on every single tar invocation for decades to come?
Right, covered too in:
> rsync and scp have similar behaviour.
> Basically, `:' is annoying in filenames. Encoding it would have been
> possible but we don't encode anything else. And I think a rule
> against reusing the same upstream version with a different epoch is
> entirely sensible, anyway.
Yeah. If we decided we wanted epochs present somehow in filenames
(#551323, for which I think I've got most code in some dpkg branch,
but I'd expect there are going to be tons of things assuming filename
patterns in external tools), we'd still need to decide first how and
if to encode it, and second when to encode it. As you say, we can
consider to add the epoch to the upstream tarball or not; because in
the end that's a Debian specific construction in the same way as our
If upstream is releasing different content using the same version, then,
well, this so broken I'm not sure it's worth supported anyway. :)
The problem could have also been introduced by Debian, by using an
inexistent version that then upstream starts reusing, which IMO then
deserves a Debian-specific versioning scheme, such as +ds or similar.
The former can also be worked around this way. So I think it does make
sense to ignore epochs for orig tarballs.
This means we still could consider introducing epochs for the rest of
the filenames, .dsc, .changes, .deb, .diff.*, etc. The problem of course
is still *.debian.tar.*.
In any case, I agree with Colin that the problem here is with DAK
forgetfulness, because all filenames ever seen by DAK should be unique
and never contain different content regardless of the time frame.
On Fri, 2018-02-09 at 18:10:54 +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 09.02.2018 17:02, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Philipp Kern writes ("Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped"):
> >> You say upstream version. But I'd say that rollbacks are exactly that:
> >> reuse of a different epoch with the same upstream version. Like what
> >> happened to imagemagick multiple times.
> > I don't know precisely what you mean by "rollback". If you mean
> > "change our mind about uploading foo new upstream version 3, and go
> > back to foo upstream version 2", I would not encourage use of an epoch
> > for that. I would upload foo version "3+really2". This is ugly but
> > fits much better into everything.
> But how is that better than using an epoch? I fully understand why
> Ubuntu has to use this scheme because they can't use epochs. But we can.
> Why isn't this a legitimate case to use one?
We've already had this exact conversation before: