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Re: systemd now appears to be only possible init system in testing

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 04:00:31PM -0007, Cameron Norman wrote:
> El Fri, 25 de Jul 2014 a las 8:47 AM, Josh Triplett
> <josh@joshtriplett.org> escribió:
> >Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> >> Sure I can go through setting up chroot for that, yet I really
> >>think if my
> >> work requires changes in other packages and the recent systemd
> >>changes do require this kind of work, I *help* with these
> >>changes, instead of uploading my changes to unstable *before*
> >>the other packages have been fixed.
> >
> >One point of clarification: systemd does not require changes in
> >systemd-shim or cgmanager.  systemd runs just fine with no such
> >changes.
> >Those packages exist for people who for whatever reason don't want to
> >run systemd, and that's not something the systemd folks should be
> >expected to help with (any more than people who don't want to run
> >systemd would be expected to work on systemd).
> >
> >The systemd maintainers already held systemd 204 back in unstable for
> >months waiting for the alternative to become viable.
> >
> >It's not reasonable to expect every systemd upgrade in
> >unstable/testing
> >to wait for an alternative init system to keep up.  If it does
> >keep up,
> >great; there's no fundamental reason to *not* want that alternative to
> >work.  If it doesn't, oh well.
> I agree, but would also add that other packages in Debian should at
> least try to keep support for other init systems by not depending on
> later logind's until systemd-shim is updated. It is clear (I think)
> that there are a number of reasons somebody would prefer to use an
> alternative init system (including a few unresolved bugs so far),
> and packages like GNOME or policykit should support more than just
> systemd-sysv.

That's another "best-effort" case: if those packages don't need features
of new logind or systemd, they certainly shouldn't gratuitously depend
on a newer version than they need.  But if they do, they should properly
express that dependency.

As for "a few unresolved bugs", that's also common in unstable, and I'm
sure they'll get fixed soon enough.  Which ones did you have in mind at
the moment?  Most of them have been fixed already.  The most significant
outstanding ones I know of are 753589 (which has a patch that needs
uploading), 618862 (keyscript support in crypttab), and 738965 (which is
*caused* by a Debian-specific patch).

Long-term, if a non-systemd init remains viable, people running it in
unstable and potentially in testing should likely get used to having to
put large swaths of their system on hold while waiting for updates.
That's a pretty common thing to need to do in unstable.

- Josh Triplett

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