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sysvinit is still here, and here to stay for jessie (was Re: systemd is here to stay, get over it now)

On Thu, 3 Jul 2014, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:

> The proper solution is to stop trying to hide ourselves from to the fact 
> that some sort of systemd interfaces have been made unavoidable in 
> modern desktop environments (fact which is rightfully reflected in our 

Eh… you know… these are not all that Debian runs.
A lot of Debian systems even run without dbus!

> As developers of Debian (which this list is about afterall), our proper 
> solution is not to forbid systemd on our various systems while hoping 

Why not?

> or without systemd btw). Given that the technical committee has made a 
> decision which stayed unchallenged (so far), I've now come to think that 

No, there just has not been any challenge that met the form and
other requirements… and I am at a bit of loss at what to do here.

Besides, it’s not that the TC made a decision. Rather, the TC was
split, and the chairman threw in his weight. This is absolutely not
what I’d call a project(!) decision.

Also… see below.

> We are collectively developing an operating system, not only assembling 

Yes… a universal one.

> Can we get over this now and start making Jessie the most awesome stable 
> release we've ever prepared together?

To do that, it MUST work without systemd, if alone for upgrade

And alone the fact that the systemd issue *continuously* pops up
shows you that it is nowhere even near solved.

Furthermore, the TC(-chairman) decision only was on the default
init system for the Linux ports of jessie. This means that
• installing jessie with other init systems
• switching between init systems
• default init system for kFreeBSD ports
• default init system for Hurd port
• which non-default init systems are there?
are still on the table. (Due to Debian’s requirements for sane
upgrades, running a jessie system that was upgraded from an older
release with sysvinit MUST be fully supported, anyway.)

I’m a bit torn between throwing it all (which is a bad idea ofc),
writing a GR myself (which is also a bad idea due to my lack of
language skills), packaging BSD init for my own repo, joining the
(currently unheard) runit-as-init crowd…

Sometimes they [people] care too much: pretty printers [and syntax highligh-
ting, d.A.] mechanically produce pretty output that accentuates irrelevant
detail in the program, which is as sensible as putting all the prepositions
in English text in bold font.	-- Rob Pike in "Notes on Programming in C"

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