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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

2014-07-03 0:40 GMT+02:00 Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at>:
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>> And should we open the archive for a series of "i hate $tool, i never
>> want it" packages, where do we stop? In theory we could end up with a
>> load of them.
> Joertg, please be reasonable. You know exactely why there is a difference
> between a conflict-package against systemd that comes in as indirect
> reference via hundreds of channels, while all the other stuff
> will hardly pulled in unless you install a package of that suite
> on purpose.
> You are comparing apples with watermelons, or better, apples with trees.
> Why do you state such things despite the fact that you are well
> aware that systemd is different from all the others? The only
> explanation is that you don't want people to keep systemd out.
Just because the package's purpose in itself is - sorry - idiotic it
shouldn't make it's way into the archive. We are building a consistent
operating system here, with packages which add components to the OS.
Some package preventing stuff to be added does not make sense from
this point of view.
But furthermore, the package does not fulfill the purpose it is
designed for: It will *not* prevent the installation of systemd
components, since nothing depends on it, in order to satisfy the
dependency chain, Apt will simply remove the package. This can be
circumvented by making the -must-die package essential or required,
but that will never happen for obvious reasons. So you would have to
pin that package in order for it to be "useful". But this means that
the package is not useful out-of-the box (what we expect from every
Debian package), also you can pin the systemd-sysv package directly to
prevent the init-system from becoming default. So adding the package
to Debian is completely pointless. Having it in a private repo,
however, is of course up to anyone who would like to use it. But for
the reasons stated above, and of course for the "must-die" attitude,
which, although maybe meant funny, does not come across as joke for
all people, such a package could never be added to the Debian
Please, just pin systemd-sysv and be done with it. And if you really
want to help with making a systemd-init-free Debian, you should invest
work in systemd-shim to make it use cgmanager. That is an open task
where the systemd-shim authors could likely need help, and which would
immediately help your case.

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