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Re: so, systemd now and teh world still turns...

On 03/06/14 23:10, Holger Levsen wrote:
> thanks for taking this to the list and for doing some further investigations. 
> That's quite among the best possible outcomes of that blog post of mine ;-)

Just wait until the press get hold of it...

> piuparts has not gotten this far with testing yet (other depends of these 
> packages are probably in the failed testing state), but I have added those to 
> my list.

I didn't realise piuparts was such a slow-running batch job;  I'd
imagined it as something that tests new packages in real-time like
lintian, or dependency sets of the whole archive within minutes like

> as well as ltsp-server-standalone which piuparts.d.o just found now also 
> depending on systemd-sysv

It's good to learn something new every day - here's how to watch APT
follow dependencies:

apt-get -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=1 \
 --no-install-recommends install ltsp-server-standalone

It would seem to be due to gnome-session, but there are OR'd
dependencies on other providers of x-session-manager such as
xfce4-session.  So this actually works in sid, without needing systemd
or systemd-sysv:

apt-get  --no-install-recommends \
 install ltsp-server-standalone xfce4-session

>> kde-baseapps kde-runtime kde-workspace plasma-desktop
>> [I think that's all of task-kde-desktop except for udisks2]
>> Most notably installable without any systemd packages:
>> xfce4 task-xfce-desktop
> those indeed aren't on my list, but "xfswitch-plugin" is, and that is part of 
> XFCE which is why stated what I staed.

>> If you agree, could you pretty-please amend the false statement in your
>> blog post to at least mention XFCE does not depend on systemd? 

I didn't think you'd be telling lies on purpose, but let's not overstate
the extent of systemd's tentacles yet.

> well, to me the current question here is how much is "xfswitch-plugin" 
> essential part of XFCE?

It's only optional.  It's a Suggests: of package xfce4-goodies, and that
is a Recommends: of xfce4.  This is why I was able to `apt-get install
--no-install-recommends` either xfce4 or task-xfce-desktop

To check there were no systemd dependencies, I had systemd-must-die
metapackage installed and held ;)  It's actually very useful for this:
apt-get exits with status 100 if there's a dependency conflict, so I was
able to test a batch of packages very easily.

That's a rather strict interpretation of systemd dependency (I've seen
Simon's comment that use of some systemd libs doesn't always mean
they're needed/used).

> Oh, and systemd-sysv should me made essential soon or sysvinit-core should be 
> made non-essential (or whatever the next steps are to implement the decision 
> from #727708) ASAP - because there will be this freeze in 5 months...

Yeah I expect it will be an uphill struggle to keep many packages
installable without systemd.  I hope there will be still soem bits left
though.  And I think think all this analysis is useful information and
not a completely pointless exercise.

Steven Chamberlain

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