On 11/05/14 09:18, Marc Haber wrote: > On Sat, 10 May 2014 19:47:10 +0100, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> > wrote: >> On Sat 10 May 2014 at 12:05:25 -0400, John wrote: >> A couple of quotes from your mail: >> > "I find myself appalled at the rude and domineering attitudes of >> > almost all systemd's defenders." >> >> You're not looking for flames? You're kidding, aren't you? Your technical >> question is wrapped up in flame-baiting. > > Sorry if that comes around at flame-baiting, but John describes the > way the systemd world socially interacts with its outside quite > accurately. It is the same for me: social interaction with systemd > (and this includes reading bug reports and mailing lists without > participating actively) takes fun out of using Linux for me just for > the social sake. > > Something along the lines of systemd is technically needed and a good > idea, but the people behind it do not come along nice. > Completely agree. I think the following article resumes very well the attitude of those developers pushing for systemd: """ The systemd developers are responding to upstart and launchd and android init as things they must _defeat_, an establish a new standard by crushing all the competing implementations. This means developers who want gradual staged transitions, and thus ask questions like "what if I don't want to switch yet", or "how do I get the old behavior out of the new thing", are enemies of systemd. Those questions are anathema to the systemd plan for world domination, if you're not using their stuff already you're the enemy, a relic of history to be buried. We can't opt out and see how it goes, we must fight to stay where we are. The systemd developers are basically taking the Microsoft approach to development: they don't want you to have the option of NOT using their stuff. """ http://www.landley.net/notes.html#23-04-2014 About the original question of John: I think that apt/preferences is not the best way to avoid something to be installed. I tried it on the past, and when apt don't has another way of solving the dependencies it will install the unwanted package anyway. The most efficient way I found to avoid a package to be installed, is to create a meta-package that conflicts with the one(s) you want to avoid, and put that package on hold. Thorsten has uploaded a package that conflicts with the systemd ones [1], you can install it, and put it on hold. That should avoid any systemd bits on your system until you unhold or remove the package systemd-must-die. To put it on hold (after installing it): echo systemd-must-die hold | sudo dpkg --set-selections And check that it is on hold with: dpkg --get-selections | grep hold Regards! -------- [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/193110 http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/systemd-must-die_8_all.deb
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