Re: Bug#727708: Fsck SystemD and its developers and its users. GR to override this please.
On 02/11/2014 12:53 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2014-02-10 20:20:36 -0800:
>> On 02/11/2014 04:10 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> Do we allow users to choose their FireWire stack, WiFi or Audio Driver
>>> stack in the kernel? There were several alternative implementations
>>> of these, yet we only provide one of each.
>>
>> I don't see why we would explicitly forbid this choice (which has
>> nothing to do with what we provide by default). Last time I checked, it
>> was possible for our users to rebuild their own kernel. We even provide
>> some userland tools for that.
>
> In the case of init system choice, having choice means having packages
> that work poorly with the non-default init system.
>
> Nobody wants to forbid OpenRC or Upstart. Having all four working init
> systems is a lot like having kFreeBSD and Hurd.
>
> However, the reason we can have kFreeBSD is basically POSIX. Some things
> don't work, but the majority of things do work. There is a long standing
> set of rules that things play by for the most part, and when they diverge,
> that is a choice they make.
>
> By and large these init systems work nothing like eachother. So having
> lots of them, means having lots of variation in init scripts, or having
> a lowest common denominator init format which AFAIK does not exist and
> would not achieve anything a switch away from sysvinit is intended to
> solve.
>
> So, perhaps if we teach Upstart and OpenRC to read systemd unit files,
> and they all can be expected to behave similarly, this will work out.
> Otherwise, giving everyone a choice just makes work for little gain.
You are talking as if we were starting from zero. Reality: all of our
packages support both sysv-rc and OpenRC. We only have to maintain that,
which is anyway important for our non-linux ports, and none of us have a
crystal ball to predict how it will happen. I don't think it's a good
idea to just give-up, or to spread the word that we should (give-up)
before things even happen.
The situation with upstart or systemd, if not chosen as default, will be
quite different, since not all packages are supporting them directly
right now. One of these 2 will suffer from the choice of default init
system.
Cheers,
Thomas
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