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Re: Bug#727708: tech-ctte: Decide which init system to default to in Debian.

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 04:29:24PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> While I agree with your point, it's pretty difficult to reimplement the
> "interesting" parts of systemd in other implementations of pid1 if
> whoever wrote the "interesting" parts does not document it, does not say
> what it's supposed to do, does not want to accept patches for things
> they're not interested in, and is by and large uninterested in anyone
> who prefers to use something else than whatever their kool-aid is.

> I'll grant that maybe logind provides interesting functionality which
> other projects might want to depend on, and that there's nothing wrong
> with that. The problem, however, is that the functionality is not
> defined: if I want to provide an alternative pid1 implementation, then
> the specifications are clear, and I should Just Do It (not that I'm
> going to muddle the waters even more by doing so, but you understand the
> point). If I want to provide an alternative implementation of logind,
> however, then the only spec out there is the logind code, which might
> change one day to the next just because the logind developer feels like it.

Are there things missing from
<http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/> from an
implementor's perspective?

For my part I regard this as a tempest in a teapot.  Lennart has been
effective at making people worry that not using systemd is too dangerous to
consider.  But Ubuntu has done just fine with splitting the dbus services
off of init up through systemd 204, and while we know there are some big
issues on the horizon with the cgroup manager and kdbus questions, these are
not settled matters across the Free Software ecosystem.  There are lots of
other people besides the upstart and Debian non-Linux-port community who
have reservations about the systemd gravity well, including anyone using
cgroups today on top of lxc or using the Google tools.

So I'm not going to give anyone a roadmap today for how these capabilities
will be made available in a non-systemd environment, because a lot of this
has to do with decisions that need to be made in the relevant wider
technical communities and have nothing to do with the init system per se.

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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