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Re: can we (fully) release-goal decommissioning of trolls

On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 12:38 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> This is untrue. Any *physically logged on* user can connect to any
> network. For a desktop system this is clearly a reasonable default
Well the are people that may disagree here. Of course this is dependent
on personal views.
Anyway what _I_ meant is now described and reported now in
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682406 . :)

And yes, I know, it's already an issue when managed mode was enabled.

> This is a reasonable choice, given that most distros have very basic or
> nonexistent network configuration (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts
> hahaha) and those who have a decent one were not designed for high level
> integration.
Uhm... yeah well,... I personally don't think so,.. because distros (I
guess including Debian), will continue to have and user their own
"native" tools... whether they're perfect or not.
(And I agree with your laughter on /etc/sysconfig/network* ;-) )

> > 3) ifupdown integration is really bad
> Which is why it is disabled by default. Not that it hurts much.
People who want to continue using /e/n/i will have to enable it, or it won't work at all... or do I miss something?
And IMHO it's invalid to demand that people should drop their use of a
well proven system.

> If you want to fix this broken set of features that is not enabled by
> default, send patches.
I'm currently not to inclined in getting into NM development... and I
guess it's not forbidden to discuss / report bugs or ideas for
enhancements... when one is not part of the developers, is it? ;)

> > c) when NM is running, I cannot use ifup foo / ifdown foo / ifconfig
> > <parameters>... well I can.. but then everything gets really messed up
> So what? What actual problem does it cause?
E.g. scripts using them automatically don't work any longer.
Consider something like a cron script, that needs to connect to some VPN
and transmit periodically collected data.

> > 4) upstream more or less doesn't want to support these scenarios...
> Of course, because *as you pointed out yourself*, the idea of parsing
> system configuration is stupid and leads to bugs.
Yes but I haven't said, that this parsing wouldn't be needed to be
replaced by directly using the native tools...

> Yes. This is actually what happens on usual setups (one interface, DHCP
> without any special options) upon NM installation.
But you know, that not all debian installations need to be simple laptop
installations, don't you? And even laptop installations can do more
complex things (take my example from above).

> I think the disease mostly consists in old farts
Wow,... very adult to insult people...

> These people are the disease.
Jep... very adult...


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