On Sunday, August 19, 2012 20:41:47, Michael Biebl wrote: […] > I won't bother following up as I'm really tired of all this BS on > debian-devel regarding NM lately. Sorry. > My guess is, that this will be another of those pointless NM bashing > threads, where nothing useful comes out of it. Actually I'm not sure > what the point of this thread is, but it definitely managed to piss me > off, the maintainer of network-manager, and I'm not going to further > participate. I'm sorry you're feeling hurt from the NM criticism. I'm confident that nobody had any intent of hurting your feelings. Whatever opinions I or others my have about NM are about the software is mostly about the software that comes from upstream -- which has nothing to do with you directly, so /please/ try not to take this personally. Also this thread started mainly about *other* packages that pull in network-manager as a dependency, which doesn't even have to do with the network-manager package itself. NM is just one part of a larger "meta issue" going on concerning coordination /between/ various packages. There's a natural tendency to have an emotional attachment and pride one's work. In the case of Debian packaging the maintainer gets to have a lot of input on how the package gets installed and might have /some/ control over the software's default behavior, but to a large extent it seems to me the maintainer only has minimal control over how the software actually works, because that comes from upstream and it's specifically /not/ the packager's task to implement major design changes to it. I therefore think taking criticism about the /software itself/ that a maintainer packaged /personally/ is a harsh self-judgment, especially if there's not much a maintainer can actually /do/ about the perceived design failings that the software might have. This reminds me of the the "Serenity Prayer"  mantra used during meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). The part of this that I think is non-obvious is that one's emotions and reaction are actually a choice. For instance, my experience is that if someone outright criticizes me directly with the obvious intent of /trying/ to hurt my feelings, /that/ is often far easier to dismiss than if someone criticizes the output of my efforts /without/ any obvious intent to make it hurt. This is a good thing as otherwise I would be allowing someone else to /control/ my emotions and my reaction. But the extension of this is even more interesting -- that I am /responsible/ for my emotions as as well as my reaction, because they are both my choice. (There's an interesting 10-minute video  discussing some of these issues which I think is worth watching.) Finally, I want to make it clear that none of the above is meant as criticism of any kind -- it's meant purely as an attempt to help.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhgtGFPTeMY -- Chris -- Chris Knadle Chris.Knadle@coredump.us GPG Key: 4096R/0x1E759A726A9FDD74
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