On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:18:14PM +0000, Uoti Urpala wrote: > Steve Langasek <vorlon <at> debian.org> writes: > > I'm sure that systemd does much better than a traditional sysvinit boot with > > /bin/bash and no dependency-based booting. But then, so does Debian's > > current boot system, and so does upstart; and neither of the latter two > > involve grandiose claims of a "shell-free boot". Trying to take the shell > > completely out of the boot means a definite tradeoff here between boot speed > > and configurability/maintainability, and in the absence of hard numbers, I > Tradeoff? What tradeoff? The tradeoff of hard-coding policy into C code in exchange for faster boot. > Sysv-style init scripts are messy, definitely not maintainable, and > theoretically configurable in the "turing-complete" sense but hard to > modify in practice. Yes, all of this is true. You seem to have mistaken my criticism of the systemd model for a defense of sysvinit, which it was not. A system where *everything* is a shell script is not very maintainable; but neither is a system whose design is predicated on the idea that everything is built-in. The middle ground between the two seems to be upstart. > systemd service configuration wins in boot speed, You did actually read my message, right, where I observed that there are no published numbers to support this claim in a relevant head-to-head comparison? And your only response is to repeat the unsubstantiated claim? > > Though this is still a pretty misleading comment, since both of these > > statements are also true: > > All major distros either made sysvinit the default or include it in their > > distro. > > All major distros either made upstart the default or include it in their > > distro. > It's not that misleading after all when you consider how quickly systemd has > reached that position. Um, of course it is. Claiming that "it's included in the distro" as if that's some sort of major milestone is *incredibly* misleading. Lots of things are included in lots of distros that are never going to be used by default. Debian has certainly not made a decision to use systemd yet, but that doesn't stop Lennart from using the package's presence in the Debian archive in his propaganda. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature