Re: Why is help so hard to find?
On Fri January 14 2011 13:44:12 Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:11:51AM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
> > The impression I get of Debian is that in order to contribute
> > I need to spend a year or so humoring somebody with a tenth my
> > programming experience.
> > (1) sysv-rc upgrade should not bring in insserv and wreck
> > startup on systems more complicated than a basic laptops,
> This is an exaggeration.
How many systems with complex interelated services have you tested?
Why didn't your testing pick up on the problem with request-tracker
and Apache? Or the problem with Apache and bind?
You have no idea what configurations are in use on stable servers.
You have no idea how many stable servers you're going to break.
> > without adequate warning, and "irreversibly". (Note that due
> > to ass-backward design, restoring /etc does not prevent insserv
> > from wreaking havoc again. You have to also
> > "touch /etc/init.d/.legacy-bootordering".)
> So, a *critical* priority debconf question is not enough control
> for you?
No. It does not warn that years of work by Debian Developers is
to be thrown away, and without documentation on how to recover (a
restore of /etc doesn't fix it). The question says only:
The boot system is prepared to migrate to dependency-based sequencing.
This is an irreversible step, but one that is recommended: it allows
the boot process to be optimized for speed and efficiency, and provides
a more resilient framework for development.
A full rationale is detailed in /usr/share/doc/sysv-rc/README.Debian.
If you choose not to migrate now, you can do so later by running
There is nothing there about the very serious problems caused by
No sane person could possible "recommend" insserv for a server. One
second a year saved in reboot versus hours or days repairing damage.
> > (2) KDE4 is not an upgrade from KDE3. It is despicable to
> > push KDE4 onto KDE3 users. The correct upgrade path is
> > Trinity.
> Strange, I can't find your ITP for Trinity.
See my first paragraph.
Fortunately, it's very easy add Trinity to sources.list. There are a
couple of minor issues which I'm discussing with Tim but overall it's
a thousand percent more stable and user-friendly than KDE 4.