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Re: [DRAFT] resolving DFSG violations

Hello Ben and *,

Am 2008-10-27 18:31:25, schrieb Ben Finney:
> If so, I don't get it either.
> If we use the ???preferred form of the work for making modifications to
> it??? definition of source code, what is the form that best meets that
> definition?
> What form of the work do the copyright holders use to make changes to
> it?

There are SDKs called "Builder" where you will have NEVER  source  code,
even as Developer, since the "Builder" create an  IMAGE  which  will  be
uploaded into the the SRAM  of  a  Microcontroller  (I  have  some  8051
compatibles) and then after uploading it is executed...

The Microcontroller cost arround 4 US$ but  if  I  user  the  same  WITH
integrated FLASH memory, it cost arround 9-12 US$.

So, the prefered form of distributing is a 16/32/64/128/256 kByte IMAGE.

Currently I am developing a Hardware where I need  such  thing  and  now
puzzeling arround whether to use a firmware loader (GNU GPL version 3.0,
already coded and packed for the Debian distribution) or  use  the  same 
Microcontroller WITH FLASH which then is arround  5 US$  more  expensive
and if the final Hardware cost arround 40 US$ (without VAT) in Low-Cost.

I do not know, whether my customers accepet 5 US$ more.

However, my Firmware Loader must be there anyway for upgrades...

The question is, what do you want with the Sourcecode?

Reprogramming?  A singel error in the parameters will cook your computer
hardware and HOW do you want to recode something or add functionality?

I have choosen the smallest Microcontroller required to save money...

Yes, I can reploaye a MC with 16 kByte SRAM with one which has 256 kByte
and then OSS frickler can add stuff, but this would make the  controller
over 10 times more expensive...

Please think about it.

> I've been continually surprised over the decades at just how much
> usefulness can be found by clever people, once outsiders have free
> access to the form of the work that is used for making modifications.

I have the hell striping down the firmware of my hardware  to  fit  into
32 kByte and you are talking about modifications to it...

I am sure, my enterprise is  not  the  only  one  wondering  about  such
requirement to let users modify firmware of sensibel hardware which  CAN
destuct the whole computer since they have to leafe out  some  stuff  to
get it into the small memories...

> So much so that I'm very skeptical of anyone telling me that such
> access is ???totally useless???.

It is useless because I am building a hardware  which  take  me  several
month  to  develop  plus  coding  testing  the  software  in  a  secured
environement where hardware can not be destucted...

The lifetime of such hardware would be maybe 3-5 years and now, you  can
explain me, HOW you would develop/recode the firmware, if you  have  NOT
the requirement environement, risking damages to the hardware and more.

You do not know the internals of my hardware and have to  guess  things.
Without the hardware developer tools you can not even DEBUG the Hardware
while loading YOUR hacked firmware.  Even if  my  hardware  has  a  JTAG

> > So the plan is: "Debian is only for hardware manufacturers that
> > embed the firmware in flash. If you hide your non-free stuff, that'd
    Which would make hardware much more expensive

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    24V Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
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