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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

Only one email from me on this subject...

also sprach Katrina Jackson <katrinajackson20@gmail.com> [2006.07.28.1602 +0100]:
> A.  Ubuntu seems like it can get hardware support immeadiatly, but
> that support never seems to quickly get to Debian.   I have been
> using Ubuntu since Debian doesn't wok on my laptop.  Suspend
> doesn't work and my wireless pro  3945ABG doesn't work.  With
> Ubuntu everything works fine.

Ubuntu is geared towards laptops and desktops, so they take care to
add the newest patches even at the risk of reduced stability (which
may not need to be the case at all). Debian is universal and geared
for all kinds of machines, so we prefer to be conservative about

Ubuntu also includes non-free drivers, as you state. Debian makes an
effort to stay 100% free.

> B.  Ubuntu members not only support mailing lists and IRC but suport user
> forums which are so much more user friendly and don't fill up your mailbox.


> C.  You seem to worry only about packaging.  You push people to
> package.  But you don't focus on making your OS better. 

That's news to me. Actually, most of the work we do at Debian is
integrating packages and making sure they work well with each other.

> Ubuntu has made so many nice features for their OS that you don't
> seem to do.

Because we're not a desktop operating system.

> One example: They have a pop up telling you updates are ready. 

I'd claim that most Debian machines don't even have a monitor
connected to them.

> Now maybe you now have this feature, I don't know, but I see great
> ideas like this every six months with Ubuntu, and I see nothing
> from debian.

The feature to be alerted to updates has been available forever in
cron-apt, and it's been integrated into APT proper since sarge. See

> D.  Going back to C., doesn't is concern you you have so many
> programmers but so few good new Ideas for your OS compared to
> Ubuntu that will help your users? How do they have 10 times the
> good ideas you seem to.  And furthermore, when a good idea is
> presented to them they say, "good idea, we should impliment that"
> not "there's plenty of documantation, do it yourself".  

To each their own, and your "good idea" may be my worst nightmare.

Please realise that Debian is not trying to compete with Ubuntu in
being the end user's favourite. Debian continues to be the universal
operating system. Most of Ubuntu's good ideas have no place in
Debian, to be honest. If I am overlooking any, please point out
concrete examples.

> E.  Going back to the last statement, I could write an entire
> email on how people think you guys are so unapproachable and so
> down right mean to users who make these suggestions.   Users'
> concerns mean nothing to you.  ***If they did you would be
> spending as much time as Ubuntu coming up with great ideas to
> revoultionize your OS to better meet people's needs***  Why are
> you so mean?  I know you will either ignore this letter or rip my
> head off, but somebody needs to tell you.  

Generally, we won't be mean to people if we can tell that the people
have actually thought about what they're writing.

One thing you seem to have forgotten in your thinking is that Debian
is not Ubuntu, nor have we been waiting for Ubuntu to appear to wake
us up and say "holy shit, we have to run as fast as we can after

> E.  Mr. Hess has a nice supermarket argument but can't see that
> Debian needs to steal a few things from Ubuntu, ie it goes both
> ways.  

I don't think you understood his argument, nor are you aware of how
much Debian is using from Ubuntu.

> I think you just aren't smart enough to read the writing on the
> wall that there is a reason Ubuntu has been for a while now such
> a more popular distro then us.

I think it's good that everyone can make a choice as to which distro
to use.

That concludes it from my end. I wonder why you bothered to write
your email, really. Do you want to use Debian instead of Ubuntu, but
you're too frustrated with how things are? Or did you need a means
to vent out how crap you think Debian really is?

Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!
 .''`.     martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :'  :    proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
wind catches lily,
scattering petals to the ground.
segmentation fault.

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