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Re: Debian AMD64 Archive Move

On Tuesday 10 May 2005 11:19am, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Ed Cogburn <edcogburn@hotpop.com> writes:
> > On Sunday 08 May 2005 9:27am, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > In fact, looking through the non-free docs section, most of that can go
> > in right now because they don't require anyone's permission to distribute
> > since they're in non-free because of the dispute between Debian and FSF
> > over documentation.
> Will you pay us for the work and cover legal fees if any should arise?

Sure.  Because any rational person knows it won't happen.  Give us one 
reasonable example of why some one would waste time and money to sue the 
amd64.debian.net server owner in this matter, when they have absolutely 
nothing to gain, and potentially a lot to LOSE if the judge gets angry about 
the pointlessness of their suit?  This would happen in Germany, and the 
German judicial system hasn't yet become as screwed up as the American 
system.  Besides, by the time they FIND OUT, we'll be officially part of 
Debian anyway!

> Seriously, get some patience and don't inflame the situation
> please. Things like "most of that" is of zero help in deciding what
> can go in and what not. We know most of it can, the question is what
> packages are those in particular. We can't just add all of non-free
> and say it is mostly OK.

Yes you can.  That's my point.  Non-free has already been vetted by Debian 
itself, and we are part of Debian.  Any rational judge will see that, if 
given evidence by the Debian organization itself (see below).

> > Just establish the non-free section and move everything over.  If anyone
> > complains then just drop the package they're complaining about.  Of
> > course, NO ONE is going to complain since they know we will "become"
> > Debian soon anyway (and for all intents we ARE Debian - just not on their
> > server), and they've already given Debian permission to distribute.  For
> > the rest of non-free, permission to distribute is not an issue, and not
> > the reason they're in non-free to begin with.
> The pine author would for one thing.

Then load everything up but pine, if that's the only one you know of.  I've 
already listed more packages that I know about, and I'm "just" a regular 
user.  I'll bet if you had asked on d.d you could have quickly put together a 
list of 30 - 50 packages which were ok.  So why nothing in over a week?  Are 
you holding up all of non-free just because of 1 package?

And what is the point?  We are Debian.  It doesn't matter which server we're 

> It will be at least 18 month going by the release plans till etch will
> be stable and sarge amd64 can be dropped. Considering the track record
> of past timelines 2-3 years is probably more accurate. That is a long
> time for someone to start suing.

Hogwash again.  We aren't talking about *release* dates, Goswin, we're only 
talking about how long it takes before debian.org is ready to move the amd64 
port onto it.  Once sarge is out, everybody can get back to moving *forward*, 
as opposed to running in place right now, which means the ftpmasters of 
debian.org can do what they need to do to make room for pure64 *Sid*, and 
move it over so we get synced up as Etch.  Sarge can stay where it is, that's 
not the issue.  Getting the *next* Debian AMD64 port onto debian.org is not 
going to take 3 years.

> In one point you are right though:
> the exception of nvidia* package it seems. That is the only package
> that users missed so far.

Right, only the relatively few users of this technically unofficial and mostly 
unknown-to-the-world official Debian port have noticed you left non-free 
behind.  So explain to us why you believe any copyright holder of one of 
these problem packages OUTSIDE OF DEBIAN is going to find out about this, and 
for some irrational reason bothers to sue amd64.debian.net, because it isn't 
on debian.org (but its contents *is* Debian)?  Geez, compared to that, I'd 
say me getting hit by a meteorite when I next leave my apartment is a 
guaranteed certainty... heck, let me go write my will before I go to the 
grocery store.

All you need is official blessing from Debian proper, in writing, or at least 
publicly announced on the net, that yes, the AMD64 port on amd64.debian.net 
is officially part of Debian, and isn't on debian.org only because of 
technical problems, but will be physically integrated soon (which is all 
true).  With that, you don't have to worry about any lawsuits.  So please 
stop with this weird excuse.

> Please excuse us for not giving it higher 
> priority than fixing RC bugs or otherwise vital archive maintainance.

But you do have the time to re-verify non-free all over again?  So you've 
wasted a whole week on this, *but* you'd rather be doing "vital" work.  
Uh-huh.  Well, I do agree with you on one thing Goswin, we all have important 
things that need to be done,  so please stop this pointless exercise, which 
basically amounts to nothing more than harassment of the users, and just copy 
non-free over so we can ALL go back to doing what *is* important.

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