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Re: Ignoring the truth or Hiding problems? (was: Are mails sent to xxxx <at> buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?)

On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 12:06:53AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:

> > > > Please note that year 2005 has come to an end and 
> > > > the year 2005 is now  -  even in my mail address!
> > > Does the new address bring with it a more constructive attitude towards
> > > volunteers who have contributed countless hours over the years to keeping
> > > this project running, or should I plan to killfile this one as well?
> > So you decided to play a "my volunteer work is worth more than your
> > volunteer work" game?
> I said nothing of my own volunteer work, which pales in comparison to that
> of many.  Nor was I making any judgement about the relative worth of your
> volunteer contributions compared to those of anyone else -- only about the
> historically destructive effect of your mailing list contributions, which

Ah, ML contributions... misunderstanding then... :)

> offset the value of an awful lot of volunteer hours, and more yet if I allow
> myself to be dragged down by them.

Yes, that's what I'm wondering about. :)
> The "us versus them" pitting of volunteer contributions against each other
> appears to be your game alone, and is precisely the sort of thing that led
> me to killfile you in the first place.

Ohno, it's not my game, trust me. I've better things to do than playing such
a game. Maybe I'm the one who complains most loudly, but there are DDs that
agree with me in some (sometimes most or all) points, although they're not
happy about my "loudness" (which is ok and can be questioned).
> But it's a new year, and you have a new email address, and I'm an eternal
> optimist -- so as it seems to be on-point for this thread, I ask you instead
> of assuming: is there any hope that you'll participate constructively in the
> project lists in the year to come, or are you still so twisted up inside over
> past slights, real or perceived, that you refuse to treat developers such as
> James Troup, who has indeed contributed "countless hours" to Debian over the
> years, with a minimum of respect and human decency?  If all you have to
> contribute for this year is more harping about Debian's deficiencies and
> issuing of ultimatums, then I might at least save myself the time of reading,
> don't you think?

Ah, that's a level of discussion I usually prefer. Thx. 

So, of course there's always hope. Usually I respond in the same way on
lists as the message I'm responding to. Of course I know that one shouldn't
be dragged down and be better and more polite than the others, but as you
know yourself (see above) that's not always that simple. 
If a discussion on the list is going on in a proper way (that is staying
on-topic, polite and problem and solution orientated) I'll try my best to
join and contribute in the same way. 

Regarding James Troup... well, I still believe that he's a smart and nice
person in RL. Never had any problems with that. But I ask you (and other) to
respect my opinion about his Debian role as I respect and understand your
opinion that is contrary to mine. I still believe that it would be better
for the project when he would retire from some of his many positions,
because he's too loaded with them. You may or may not agree with me on that
point, but nobody is allowed to forbid me the freedom of speech to express
my opinion. 

Questions answered?

Ciao...              // 
      Ingo         \X/

Please note that year 2005 has come to an end and 
the year 2005 is now  -  even in my mail address!

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