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Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activitymonitor

On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 08:46:16PM -0500, William Ballard wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 01:25:36AM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > The Christian Bible ought to be OK by most Islamic scholars - it's the
> > Crusader history that has caused most of the problems - but you

I stand by this one :) If you look at the history books: Frederick
Barbarossa had a multi-cultural court in Sicily with Christian, Islamic 
and Jewish scholars around. Arabic Spain had no particular problem with 
Jews or Christians. 

The Koran suggests some degree of religious tolerance for "peoples of the 
Book" as I understand it.  The Bible text is therefore probably relatively 
unproblematic: apostasy from Islam, however, is a serious offence and any 
perceived attempt at conversion may be poorly viewed. 

Look at the history of the sack of Jerusalem in 1099 from the
chronicles of the Second Crusade - people boasting of wading in blood -
and you'll see that at least some of the anti-Christian/Crusader hatred
was well founded in fact at the time.

> After 9/11 I saw a fellow named Tariq Ramadan on C-Span, and one of his 
> books was the history of Occidental peoples written from an Oriental 
> perspective -- in other words, what they thought of us "way back then."
> At the time the Crusades were a border skirmish of only middling 
> interest.  Most of Islam hardly knew about them.  It wasn't until the 
> Ottoman empire in the 1800s and attempts at inciting nationalistic fury 
> to support various pan-Arab movements that they got trumped up into such 
> a big huge deal.

At the time 1000-1300, "Islam" was fighting on several fronts - Spain was 
still a divided country but the Arabs were being pushed back, Constantinople
was resisting Islamic influence - but the Islamic religion and sphere of
influence was still growing.  In this context, the Crusades were just 
another war at the time.

> A lot of the minor princes made friends with the invaders.  After all, 
> we have Christian Syria and Christian Lebanon out of it.

Look at the history books. Lebanon/Syria/Palestine/Spain were all part
of the Roman Empire / Byzantine Empire at one time or another.
Christianity in Syria goes back to the second century CE.  "Christian
Syria/Lebanon" just remained multi-faith/multi-cultural.

> It's really shocking to hear what kind of mouthpieces some people are on 
> the left for what some shady egyptian cleric in 1910 wrote.
This rant from me is relatively apolitical :)

Apropos the situation currently in force in various countries round the
world and each countries national restrictions: it is appropriate for
citizens and non-citizens to obey the law of the country they are in.

If you are in Iran/Saudi Arabia/Myanmar/<any other country> you should
behave with respect and live appropriately by that country's laws as far
as this is possible.  The Debian Project can't legislate for <random
country>: if, as Michelle Konzac says, nudity and pornography is viewed
very severely in Iran - that is a matter for the Iranians using Debian
in Iran.  If that means producing a partial mirror / remastering CD's to 
meet local conditions and disseminating Debian in accordance with local
laws and customs, so much the better. That's a matter for local Debian
users to manage and they are best placed to advise.  

If <random package> can't be sent to Iran/<random country> the Debian 
maintainer should perhaps place an entry in the package description 
explaining why. The GPG entry has something of this sort in it, explaining 
that mere possession of cryptography may be illegal in some countries.

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