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Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64

> > > It does support a number of commercial binaries though already, for
> > > those that need them.  Many of us don't.

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 04:36:30PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > I don't know what you mean here.  Is "It" amd64 or cedega?  I'm guessing
> > amd64.  Are the commercial binaries i386 or amd64?  I'm guessing amd64.

On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 02:22:17AM +0200, Frederik Schueler wrote:
> Sorry for being pedantic, but according to www.transgaming.com cedega is 
> emulating WIN32, you know. Cedega is not emulating windos64 nor the 
> "windows on windows" layer M$ named their biarch setup. And there is no 
> amd64 release of cedega from upstream. Bug them, not the debian amd64
> port, please. 


> Cedega does not support 64bit mode, but it will for sure run without a
> problem in a i386 chroot setup according to the amd64 howto found on
> alioth. If you setup the chroot and nvidia drivers correctly, you will 
> for sure be able to run doom3 as it is inteded to run as soon as it hits 
> stores. We'll see next month =)


That's certainly not the case for my system -- nvidia drivers are
of no use to me.

And, I've run into problems in the context of chroot.  Statements of
the form "it works" are not anywhere near as convincing as evidence
of the form "people have been using it, and they're no longer filing
significant bug reports".

> > Unless the debian amd64 port supports 32 bit binaries (the 32 bit binaries
> > I'm using on an amd64 system are available for free, though they're not
> > dfsg free) I think you're missing my point.
> The debian port DOES support 32bit binaries. You can run them without a
> problem, if you install them correctly. Just check the howto on alioth.
> Only non-free stuff needing a 32bit kernel will not work until vendors 
> reconsider: ATI proprietary drivers, vmware.

We're back to "maybe" here.

It works fine for some people.  It needs testing.

And, chroot (install debian twice, once for 64 bit support, once for
32 bit support, then crosswire the two systems so you can access each
from the other) is painful and quirky, no matter how much people claim
it's easy.

When compared to porting, chroot is easy.  But porting isn't something
we'd want to ask of most of our users, either.

> > I'm saying that Debian's current amd64 port isn't positioned to be useful
> > in as providing extensions to a 32 bit environment.
> Feel free to help in multiarch development, and consider the actual port
> a transitional stage.
> Do you prefer running i386 binaries and kernel on your amd64 system, wasting 
> the additional registers, sse2 support and the improved memory management? 
> Apparently not, considering:
> > I use Debian.  On amd64.  For now, I'm using it (the i386 flavor) in a
> > chroot jail on a gentoo base, or by rebooting into it.
> My condolences. Wheren't you able to install debian-amd64 or why do you use 
> gentoo, looking at your DD status? very, very strange. Why did I never read 
> anything from you on debian-amd64 and never saw you in #debian-amd64 on opn?

First off, my requirement is not efficiency.  My requirement is "I
sometimes need to do stuff in a 64 bit environment".  That's just plain
not something you can do stock i386 debian -- you need something to
provide a 64 bit kernel and 64 bit libraries.

I gave up on the amd64 port last year, because I didn't have the time
to deal with it.  I also gave up on building my own gcc (for the same
reason), and went with someone else's version because I just wanted
something that worked.

Given that, I didn't think it was worth wasting the time of the people
on debian-amd64.

Also, I'm almost never on IRC.  I'm rarely in a network situation where
it's even possible.  [Because I don't have the time to deal with the
security issues, I never run ip servers of any sort on my home equipment
-- and, yes, that means I don't run debian's KDE, even though I've wanted
to more than occasionally.]

I don't expect that anyone else needs my particular set of apps, or
that they have my requirements, but I do expect other people will want
to use debian to run commonly available commercial apps.

Here's a question for you, what good does it do to port debian's "alien"
package to amd64 for people who want to use it to install LSB compliant
rpms, if Debian's amd64 isn't LSB compliant?


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