Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64
On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 06:50:04PM +0200, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 06:08:41PM +0200, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote:
> > I think you have to go back and read mine
> > (http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/platforms/tbm), specifically the
> > section about "Internal - Core Teams, Delegates, Communication,
> > Transparency". Everyone in this thread who have asked me as DPL to
> > add new members to existing teams or replace existing delegates
> > completely should read and think about this section. As DPL, I'll do
> > my best to make sure that a role is performed by members who have
> > enough time, competence and can communicate. However, I can only work
> > with the resources which are available. If there are no suitable
> > volunteers, there is not much I can do.
>
> Then please define what a volunteer should fulfill to be suitable. There was
> already the request for a job description...
A "job description"? Come on! "Help", that's all you need to do.
A "job description" is a nice word which stems from the enterprise world
and which doesn't do much more than helping people find an excuse to a)
fire other people ("these two people have the exact same job
description, surely we can fire one of them"), or b) say "no" when asked
to do some job ("it isn't part of my job, look at the friggin' job
description!"); It isn't actually helpful in any way, *especially* not
in a volunteer organization.
[...]
> > However, it turned out to be very
> > hard to actually find volunteers who're interested, have enough time,
> > are competent or actually get any work done. What I found instead is
> > that a large number of people are only interested in their own
> > packages. If people were interested in all of Debian, we surely would
> > have less RC bugs and more people attending BSPs, right? We need more
>
> Funny... I have no packages at all and forced to turn away from Debian.
You weren't forced to do anything. You chose not to follow a directive
given by a delegate, who then chose to disconnect your machines.
Although I partially understand your motives for doing what you did,
it's unfair to say you were "forced" to turn away.
> > As an example, there were many people complaining
> > about the speed of the NM process but very few people actually
> > volunteered to help out. And some of those who actually volunteered
> > found out when processing their first applicant that they don't have
> > the time or interest and stopped, leaving me with the mess to clean
> > up...
> >
> > Anyway, back to the problem at hand. Without good, capable
> > volunteers, nothing can be done. In some cases (e.g. security), help
>
> Surely. Willing volunteers are quite often discouraged.
The facts disagree with you.
At least a thousand people still volunteer maintaining their packages,
as Debian Developers. That doesn't sound like "discouraged volunteers"
to me.
[...]
> > In some cases, there is not much someone who's not a member of a team
> > can do; but in the majority of the cases, people can contribute a lot.
> > For example, if you want to help the ftpmaster team, one way would be
> > to help with katie, the archive software tools. There is a long TODO
>
> There's one problem: main developer of katie and other tools seem to be Mr.
> Troup. Well, because he seems to be somewhat picky in regards with whom he
> communicates, that will surely evolve as a problem.
Not true. In fact, Daniel Stone wrote the latest addition to dak.
[...not disagreeing with the rest...]
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