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Re: Mozilla "PostScript/default" security problems



On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 06:53, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 11:48:26AM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
> > On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 02:29, Ralph Aichinger wrote:
> > > In-reply-to: <1089332159.6413.69.camel@duke.gregfolkert.net>
> > > References: <1089332159.6413.69.camel@duke.gregfolkert.net>
> 
> (Ralph, please fix your mail headers)
> 
> > > Greg Folkert wrote:
> > > > A non-working Epiphany browser or non-working Galeon Browser. All I
> > > can
> > > > say, if you don't know to fix it in Sid, you should be using Stable.
> > > 
> > > As several threads on debian-user and debian-gtk-gnome point out,
> > > the only way to fix this in sid is by recompiling the package.
> > 
> > Er-kay. I see, umm, well EXACTLY MY POINT.
> 
> And that point is EXACTLY MOOT.
> 
> We DONT want people having to recompile mozilla just in order to be able
> to print from their GNOME browser.
> 
> This is about printing support for the default GNOME browser. People
> like you can do whatever geeky thing they please with their mozilla
> setup, but, dude, we are trying to get a as-good-as-possible release out
> of the door, including a kick-ass GNOME desktop. The Debian GNOME team
> has worked very hard to have the end-user experience as enjoyable as
> possible and make everything just work[tm]. Having to recompile mozilla
> doesn't fit in the picture, see?

This is the first time anyone in this thread has really explained this.
I understood this from the beginning. The reason I keep pushing this
discussion as our Mozilla Package maintainer will then have reference to
goto. When we are able to point him to the discussion, addressing the
whole subject, pro and con. 

I hopefully, got the ire out that needed to come out for him to see his
mistake and to back out the change, or for enough real people get
perturbed enough to also package a "mozilla-psprinting" for the masses
to use. Thereby putting enough peer pressure on Takuo Kitame to help him
change his tune and mind about the option he has disabled.

> > > Hopefully Sarge will be released by Autumn. It does not look like
> > > there will be a solution by then, at least for Epiphany (no Idea 
> > > about Galeon, don't use it). So this "don't use sid" is a non-argument.
> > > Epiphany won't get a XPrint backend until Sarge is released unless
> > > it somehow magically appears. As recompiling is not an option and
> > > a browser without printing is considered broken, Ephy will be
> > > possibly dropped from Sarge.
> > 
> > If it has to be that way, then it does. Many packages I want to use are
> > either orphaned or up for adoption. the WNPP list is getting insane. 
> 
> Again. This is about the default GNOME browser. There is no option but
> to make it work. Already now, half the GNOME community is laughing about
> us and the hand-waiving we did to cripple epiphany downstream.

Yes, this has been a bit unsettling for sure, but I am not sure Takuo
understands the implications of his single decision. If he did, he would
have shoved it out to experimental first then asked for input... then
made the changes needed, based on the outcome of the experimental
changes.

> > > Also while I am not strictly against recompiling stuff, this does not
> > > scale. What if OpenOffice compiles out stuff next, that can only
> > > be fixed by rebuilding stuff? If I thought recompiling large packages
> > > was so much fun, I would probably be using Gentoo.
> 
> > This I will agree. But, then why use Sid? 
> 
> This is NOT about Sid, did you get this already? This is about releasing
> sarge. *BONG*!

Yes, I understand. But should that not have been a *PLONK*?

> > I can not tell enough people, enough times, that using Sid for daily
> > production work can be and at sometimes is extremely painful. If you do
> > not know how to workaround/fix these issues... USE STABLE.
> 
> If you don't understand that we try to make things easy for our users
> (limited to the GNOME and/or KDE environments. As I said, you can do as
> you please with all those other funky apps), please go elsewhere.

Oh, I completely understand the Desktop mantra. I may not agree with it
on some Stupid Sane Defaults, like taking away expert config in GNOME,
some people used GNOME just because of that feature alone in 1.x. But
NO... to confusing for the first-timers. Then set it on Novice settings
and go from there.

> > > Add to this the compatibility problems some people have with
> > > the XPrint backend (inferior graphics output, complicated 
> > > resolution settings, cut-off page borders on some printers)
> > > even if they do not use Epiphany or Galeon, but Mozilla or 
> > > Firefox.
>  
> > Well now that is just silly beyond compare. I have not had any real
> > difficulty making XPrint work as acceptably as any other printing
> > alternative.
> 
> Yeah, but you're a "System analyst", while we have 1000 people in
> Extremadura who have never seen a computer using Debian. If you agree to
> drop by everybody and explain them how to setup XPrint that's fine of
> course.

Point goes to you. You got me there. If you want me to go round... hey,
it is your money for gas then :-P

> > There is another thread is debian-security right now that has disclosed
> > the threat and the web-site that offers the advisory.
> 
> That's more about PostScript attachments AFAICT. I still haven't seen a
> convincing motive for dropping the PS printing support

Postscript attachments and embedded Postscript in web pages. But, since
this problem really only manifests itself when people just accept that
things are always OK.

I'll have to agree, I'd rather use the PS printing in Mozilla myself.
XPrint doesn't exactly do everything it should, even though it is good
enough. As we all know "Good Enough" nearly always wins.

BTW, I am not near as thick in the head as I appear to be. I am very
"Big Boned" though.
-- 
greg@gregfolkert.net
REMEMBER ED CURRY! http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup

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