On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:22:42PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote: > > So call the group of people who can upload X something else. > > > > The XSF to me is meaningless as a concept > > If it is meaningless to you, it does not mean it is meaningless to the > entire community. It doesn't necessarily mean it isn't, either. I like to think I have a little bit of experience in XSF matters. > > - the BTS is world-write[0], > > and the really important X group are the gatekeepers to Debian - being > > yourself, Branden, and possibly Ishikawa. Let's call this group the DUX > > - Debian X Uploaders. > > <offtopic>DUX is not appropriate either for other political reasons that > would scare italian people away from here.</offtopic> Sorry, I didn't know. > > If I decide and propose something, will you upload it tomorrow? > > No, and you know that. it would still go trough the priority list, commit, > review and test. And you know as much as we do how much time it takes that > process. If you want to question the time we take to include things that's > a separate argument. If you want to question that we do not accept > anything than sorry but you know that is not true. The point I was making was that there is a group with significantly more power than everyone else, and the ultimate gatekeepers of Debian in X. If this is not true, and I'm part of the XSF, can I start uploading again? > > The reality is that you guys make decisions -- good or bad -- and have > > the final say on what hits Debian, as it stands. This is not necessarily > > a bad thing, but it's far away from the Utopia you paint where everyone > > can do everything. > > Clearly there is some minimal filtering. We are not patch-o-matic robots. > And we take responsabilities for the changes we introduce. Personally if i > don't feel to comfortable in applying a patch, i rather prefer to check it > twice before inclusion. Specially because we will have to maintain it > during the time. Right, so you're saying you're part of a class of people who have powers and responsibilities in regard to Debian's X packages above and beyond the normal users? > > I cannot contribute effectively, and I also feel that I cannot work > > within the XSF, while the SABDFL continues to feel he cannot work with > > me, and very rarely communicates with me. I have been actively removed > > from the DUX, and thus from X maintainence. That's why I can't > > contribute. > > And you are so wrong here. I am almost tired to repeat to you the same > thing over and over.. in irc and now on the mailing list. I don't feel I can work with the XSF as it stands. I worry that anything I contribute might end up being for nothing; far higher than normal. Thus, I don't contribute. > You can contribute with: > > a) patches for bugs (you are part of upstream, aren't you? you are DD and > Debian user, aren't you?) Yes. > b) commenting on threads like you did on this one in a really nice and > detailed way Yes. > c) testing fixes and pre-releases Yes. > d) stop repeating to me the same thing because i am sick and tired to > repeat the same answer ;) No. :P > e) all of the above. Yes. Now, take a deep breath, and imagine that you're not talking to Daniel Stone, but to someone who you've just pulled up in an internet cafe. What are their answers to all of the above? My point is that the XSF is not the important club to be in; that club is the group of yourself, Branden, and Ishikawa, who (whether you like it or not) are the ultimate arbiters of what goes into X, and what doesn't. I invite you to rescind your Debian account and still claim you're a DD because sponsorship works. :P > If you don't feel comfortable to work within the XSF, noone will force you > to do so, but please stop finding excuses that you can contribute only > with SVN access. I didn't say that. What I've said is that I don't feel at all comfortable with the XSF as it stands (especially with a leader who frequently point-blank refuses to speak to me, usually about matters regarding the XSF, usually important, and, as he tells the world not-infrequently, has me on /ignore on IRC), and that the XSF is a fiction of sorts. I think we need a name for xfree86's Uploaders. We'll call this mythical cabal that, and we can agree that that's a closed group that I'm not in, and that they are the arbiters of what goes into Debian's X. If the latter is not true, feel free to throw me in Uploaders, next upload. > You are doing an incredible amount of job upstream, do you realize that > sooner or later it will flow back here? You are doing it for even a larger > userbase than Debian. so what? you still think you are not contributing? I know it will flow back here. But I'm not contributing in a *direct* way to the XSF, as it stands. :) d -- Daniel Stone <daniels@debian.org> Debian: the universal operating system http://www.debian.org
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