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Re: Menu location for CD-R software?


Thanks for answering.  A few follow-up questions below...

Ulrich Eckhardt <uli@doommachine.dyndns.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 13 February 2003 08:27, Matt Bonner wrote:
> > Recently, I finally decided to try burning CD's in Debian.  So I
> > installed 4 or 5 of the CD recording software packages to see which
> > one I liked best.
> >
> > Then I went to go find them in the KDE menus.  Results presented in
> > the format  <menu> : <application menu name>
> Firstly, a clarification: KDE use their own menu-system, while Debian also 
> has a menu-system on its own. The 'Debian' menu-entries in the KDE menu are 
> the ugly result of trying to get those two merried with each other.

I knew that KDE and Debian had separate menus going, but I didn't 
know much about the details, so thanks for explaining.
> > Applications :  CDBakeOven, KreateCD
> > Debian->Apps->System : cdrtoaster, X-cd-roast
> > Debian->Apps->Tools : KreateCD, cdbakeoven
> > Multimedia : nothing
> > Utilities->Debian : KreateCD, cdbakeoven
> >
> So, for KDE, you have in truth
> Applications/CDBakeOven
> Applications/KreateCD
> While in the Debian menus you have rather[1]
> apps/system/cdrtoaster
> apps/system/xcdroast
> apps/tools/kreatecd
> apps/tools/cdbakeoven

What about the Utilities menu?

> So far, KDE lacks entries for xcdroast and cdrtoaster, which are afaik both 
> non-KDE apps. Their lack is thus not a big surprise and one could even argue 
> if they should have these entries.

I think you're right from a KDE perspective, but if the collective "we"
want to get serious about the desktop, this kind of silliness has to go
away.  Could Debian make the decision to use only a Debian menu system
and force all KDE applications into that structure?  I seem to recall
this was the direction RedHat went with 8.0, no?

> For the Debian menus, half of the apps went to 'system' and the other to 
> 'tools'. Since I'd rather expect apps that directly relate to the system to 
> be found in that entry (configurators, package/user/process managers) I'd say
> the others are better. However, without looking at a few guidelines about how
> to sort one's packages which are probably written for the menu-system, I'd 
> not judge these prematurely.
> > This seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me, and probably the sort
> > of issue worth resolving as part of getting more serious about Linux
> > on the desktop.  I don't see anything relevant in the menu sub-policy
> > (yes, I actually looked for and found such a thing--good on you for
> > having it), and I can easily understand making a distinction between
> > "system" cd-burning software for backups and "multimedia" software
> > for making audio or video CD's or DVD's.  But if that was the idea
> > here, I don't understand.
> I think that the word 'multimedia' will never be seen in the Debian 
> menu-system because this word severely sucks in the attempt to have a
> meaning:
> - media is plural, why the 'multi' ?
> - what does it even mean in the common language ?
> - even more, burning audio-CDs is definitively not 'multi' (even though
>   the CDs are multiplied...) !

I know what you mean, but arguing against what is obviously widespread
usage at this point seems a waste of energy.  The word was most likely
some marketing droid's way of explaining the marriage of audio, video
and software, but the source of the word seems only of academic interest
at this point.  Debian can leave it out and be none the poorer for it,
but if the category appears in the menu, I'm going to look there for
things that strike me as multimedia.  And since I was trying to burn a
video CD (not audio), Multimedia seemed a reasonable place to find such 
software.  As long as Debian continues with the "married menu" approach
for KDE, I think Debian should accept that for many users they have a
Multimedia menu.

> So, finally, how about filing patches [attached] for cdrtoaster's and 
> xcdroast's menu-entries ?

Sure.  Filing them with KDE or Debian?


> Ulrich Eckhardt
> [1]: this can't be displayed rightly like this, because Debian's menu uses 
> some Deep Magic(tm) to make new groups when there are enough members for it 
> or dissolve them if they would be too emtpy. See the docs.

blog: http://members.dsl-only.net/~mbonner/weblog/mateu.html

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