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Re: Bug#176267: ITP: mplayer -- Mplayer is a full-featured audioand video player for UN*X like systems

Eduard Bloch wrote:
> > > We do not forbid anyone the downloads from the net.
> > Nor do you provide uncrippled media player software.
I was mistaken when I wrote that, xine.deb is full version.

> > > Hahaha. Two-three years ago. And in that time, there were faster
> > > alternatives for common used systems, Ogle, iirc.
> > Ogle is only good for one thing: DVD menus (but it's real good in it).
> The fact is, even on a relative old multimedia system (say, Athlon-500
> with TNT2), you can use both Xine and Mplayer for MPEG2/DivX videos with
Yes, _now_, maybe. But you told me 2-3 years ago there were better players
(ogle) than MPlayer.

> keen on your maximum acceleration for aalib and SVGAlib output features
> as long as you want, there are not many people using them.
How can you be so sure of that? We received many complaints when AAlib was
disabled in the (currently discussed) MPlayer debian package.

> > So crippling libavcodec, AC3 and ASF out of MPlayer would make it run
> > acceptably? Cool :)
> Come on, be honest, do you need AC3 and ASF support for mostly used
> formats nowadays?
Come on, be honest, how many DivX movies have you watched lately?
(hint: 60% of the release groups release MPEG4+AC3 AVI DVDrips...)
And how many video did you stream from the net? Televisions, radios, etc..
ALL stream in ASF/WMV/WMA (all the same!) either in video+audio, or
audio only.

> > Get real: this "Debian STABLE+legal" policy _does_ _not_ _allow_ _a_ _usable_
> > _media_ _player_ to enter into Debian. Neither xine, nor MPlayer.
> Put in in all caps if you want - the definition of "usable" remains
> a moving target, see above.
Seen above..

> > Sorry for quoting this much, but you read _nothing_ of Arpi's paragraph
> > below. Nor did you answer any questions. Instead of answering why
> > libavcodec in xine is _legal_, and why libavcodec in MPlayer is _illegal_,
> > you talk about bleeding edge software being bad.
> > Please answer the questions.
> You miss the point, more and more.
I miss the point? lol :)

> Well, the reason is simple - it was free to be distributed in binary form,
Uhh... Yes, it is GPL, but it is _not free_ (MPEG4, faad, etc) !
Nor is MPlayer.

> If Xine's inclusion brings legal problems, it will be removed again.
It seems so, just as MPlayer won't be included into Debian. I think it is
unfortunate to disable media playing by default in one of the biggest Linux
distributions in 2003, just because maybe some patent holder _may_ come and
sue. I do understand your viewpoint. I just don't agree with it.

> It is either legal, or illegal,
"This business is binary," huh? :))

> afford a lawyer that can estimate the danger, but it is then still _risk_.
Life is risky.

> Again: READ MY MAIL. There is no Debian attitude unless it became a
> consens and Project Leader has spoken to you.

> > You read 0 of my mail (Subj: "Just the usual rant...")
> > Since when does debian-legal know better than the code's authors..?
> > (answer in THAT thread, not here.. if you answer at all.)
> Oh, come, "my-brother-got-more-sweetmeats-than-me". As said, we will
> deal with this issue.
thuglife told us that according to debian-legal, the GSM codec in MPlayer
is not GPL. We were very surprised by that, because we asked its original
author (Mark Podlipec, XAnim developer) if we can use it under GPL, and he
(BTW xine also contains that GSM stuff, don't know if they asked about
its distribution... :))

> > We are NOT talking about licenses! We are talking about if you are willing
> > to (for example) pay royalty to the MPEG Group for using an MPEG4 decoder!
> > And MPlayer is GPL, pronto (except lrmi). If it is not, __come with proof__!
> Huch? Do you expect the GPL to protect you from law suits because of
> patents?
I don't see what you mean. My point is: the GPL won't protect you. However
I think it is _highly unlikely_ anybody is gonna sue you for libavcodec.
(nobody did so far)

> > > Haha. Show me that distribution. Someone shipping on CD media and not
> > > fetching Mplayer stuff from the net during the installation.
> > Do you really think we are spreading FUD, and/or lying? Pity..
> Hehe, I expected this. No answer but an answer by question.
<sigh> You really don't think too much of us. :(
Here you go: uhulinux.hu
You can even use its .uhu packages in debian :) (it's .deb)
And it's the official Hungarian Linux distribution.

> F'up to me, enough of this on debian-devel.
Feel free to answer on -legal, also I'd prefer that.

MPlayer Core Team
  "not sure how we will proceed here - xine's potential in the video
   processing field is imho so great that i certainly don't want to miss
   the chance to work into that direction." - Guenter, xine developer

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