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Re: DAM approval wait time?

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:52:16 +1100
Andrew Lau <netsnipe@debianplanet.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 08:01:26AM -0800, Jim Lynch wrote:
> > But what are you actually going to -do-? If I recall correctly,
> > you've said on IRC that you aren't or don't want to be a coder
> > (correct me if I'm wrong), and a previous attempt on your part to
> > become a developer left NM with the question of what you intended to
> > do crossed with what you had the skills to do. Perusing your entry
> > in NM, you have passed the skills test. Congrats. But my question
> > still stands...
> > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:08:29 +1000 Andrew Lau
> > <netsnipe@debianplanet.org> wrote:
> Dear Jim,
> 	A bit hypocritical of you pointing out that I was
> participating in my own thread late. 

Not at all. The thread I refer to is the now-very-large "Are we losing
users to Gentoo" thread, which you have not participated in since your
inception of it. It's getting more and more irrelevent in my mind 
whether you have other responsibilities; there is -no-one- who is a
debian maintainer who does not.

Lots of material in that thread... should we expect some of it to be
used at DP and some in your exit thesis? Sorry, but I'm not putting
this past you.

> I have to ask, are you pursuing
> some kind of vendetta against me? I can't explain why else you are
> digging everything you know about me and using whatever I may have
> said on #debian years ago against me.

All I'm doing in the post you replied to is asking the question "What
exactly do you intend to do as a debian developer?", a question
reflected in the process of your NM app. You should simply answer it. 

On the other hand, seeing the thread you started with material you
-know- to be inflamitory, I am led to question your maturity. As I
mention below, however, the ensuing discussion may lead to some good

> What you know of me from the
> days when I was still in high school may not still correctly apply to
> me today.

I was hoping you'd say that, but you still have growing up to do.

> Are you expecting me to prove myself to you in some way?

Given some contradictory statements you've made... as a matter of fact,
I am expecting you to prove yourself as being a mature developer, or at
least showing growth toward becoming mature. I see some inklings, but I
also see some steps back.

> 	Please look at my entry on QA:
> <http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?gpg_key=2E8B68BD>. Also note that
> my filmgimp packages <http://bugs.debian.org/163620> have also been
> uploaded and are now awaiting processing by ftpmaster.

So it looks like you're actually doing stuff... Good. In fact, it
looks like you're doing a lot of work, this garnered from the many
ITP bugs you have filed. I also see that you have formed your own
aptable repository; -very- good. This makes it possible to review
and try your work.

> I can, have,
> and will continue packaging software that I find useful for Debian
> GNU/Linux and carry out any responsibilities expected from any Debian
> developer even though I am not officially recognised as one yet.

Good, but some of your other statements contradict this...

   I might as well stop telling others that Debian is more
   than just a distribution, but a community and just throw my packages
   out the window.

And here's a statement that shows intent to produce a flame war:

   Bring on the fucking flame-war. Something has to burn. Might as well
   be me.

Both of these from Message-ID: <20021023083617.GA17035@espresso>. And that
is from -this- thread.

PLEASE grow up.

Maybe you have noticed that many of the developers know how to -discuss-
without this kind of drama. Sure, people get pissed off sometimes; you
can look at yours as it being your turn and let it go at that. I'm
also willing to look at it this way, but obviously not without comment :)

Many incidents of what are called flamewars here have large bodies of
real discussion and useful information, and that even applies to the
gentoo thread you started. 

Why start something like that and then not participate? Do you even read
the messages? Why not do so RIGHT NOW if you have not? The netizen way
would be to read ALL of them before posting a single word. Perhaps you
can contribute usefully to the thread, assuming you can look at it as
being non-dramatic. There are some good ideas, some differences of
opinion, some non-useful crap as well as some discussion that might
actually produce a result. Go look, and do so -before- reacting to this

Summary, I'm not so happy with your present level of maturity and a
few of your actions as a result, but I also see you're making some
effort. Also, DP has grown into a great resource, and you are partly
responsible for that.

> Yours sincerely,
> Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau


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