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Re: [ardour-dev] Re: ardour

Does this all become a much smaller issue now that ardour-users@sf

All "running ardour" problems can be shamed off of -dev, into -users,
and someone trusted by Paul can filter if necessary.

And therefore let the distributions do as they wish. As long as all
"first-timer" problems are dealt with on -user.



On Sun, 2002-09-01 at 02:07, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Robert Jordens wrote:
> > Users complained they were not able to compile ardour because of these
> > libraries and C++'s ABI instability.
> Distribution users (well, at least Debian's) don't have to worry about this,
> since you (the maintainer) will have taken care of those details already,
> and our dependency system will keep the build sane.  Failing to build from
> source is a severe bug and causes the package to be removed from the stable
> releases, after all.
> > So Paul Davis (upstream) decided to include all C++ libraries except
> > libstdc++ (I don't understand that exception) in the CVS tree. Namely
> Ugh.  No way in hell, this is prone to cause problems, including missing
> security updates, major breakage on uncommon archs, and so on.
> > and are in the CVS anyway. The libraries having to do with GUI
> > (libgtk-canvas, libgtkmm, libart, libgtkmmext) are statically linked
> > into the ardour executable, the others are statically linked together
> > into libardour (libpbd, libmidi++, libardour, libsigc++) which itself is
> > shared.
> You cannot statically link libs in dynamic libs easily in many
> architectures, unless they are all built with -fPIC and other small details
> that are all too easy to get wrong.
> > In my attempt to prepare ardour for Debian I removed the external
> > libraries and linked against the ones in Debian dynamically.
> This is the right thing to do.
> > "I will firmly and publically denounce any packaging of Ardour that use
> > dynamic linking to any C++ library except (and possibly including)
> > libstdc++." (He means "linking to libraries not compiled in one run with
> > ardour").
> > http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/ardour-dev/2002-Jun/0068.html
> He is wrong on doing that. It is his program, but the same way we do not go
> murderous on upstream maintainers that do not take the (extreme) pains to
> get sonames, library versioning, and other _distribution_ problems (because
> they are usually not a problem to a single user dealing with his own
> machine),  upstream should not go in a fit or rage due to distributions
> doing what is right (for distributions).
> > Although stating this is problably not against the GPL, disobeying Paul as
> > upstream won't make maintaining the Debian package very easy.
> No, it will not. Maybe Paul can be made to understand that what you are
> doing is not going to damage his software, and that the Debian build will
> always be only an apt-get source -b  away...
> > It is clearly against policy and libpkg-guide.
> Yes. Such hideous linking [for something in a distribution, again this is
> NOT about a lone user and his machine] is not acceptable in Debian.
> > a) No ardour in Debian
> Acceptable, IMHO.
> > b) build the libraries with ardour and link statically against them
> >    (Pauls wish, against policy and my feelings)
> Not acceptable, no hideous hacks here please.
> > c) dynamically link against the libraries in Debian (against Paul,
> >    compliant with policy and my feelings)
> Your call.
> > d) distribute *-dbg binaries that are statically compiled as a reference 
> >    that is to be used prior to writing bug reports (I don't know how Paul 
> >    thinks about this, whether he he wants fresh libraries to be compiled 
> >    and whether that's okay with policy. At least lintian complains, though.)
> How many Ardour users are able to use gdb to track down bugs?  If the answer
> is the standard "not many", you needn't do this IMHO.  You will have to
> properly filter all bug reports so that you send Paul information he can
> use, but that's already implied in the duty of a downstream maintainer...
> -- 
>   "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
>   them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
>   where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
>   Henrique Holschuh
> -------------------------------------------------------
> In remembrance
> www.osdn.com/911/
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