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Re: where do NEW packages go?

On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 01:51:57PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 12:36:35AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > > But that does not go for the filesystem. Debian GNU/Hurd
> > > will still be Debian; If GNU doesn't like that, then GNU must make
> > > it's own Hurd-distribution, and not try to change Debian.
> > 
> > I hope nobody forgets that I was a Debian member over a year before I got
> > my GNU account.  You make it sound as if there is a hard line with Debian
> > on the one side, and GNU on the other, but there is no such line.
> Actually, I got that feeling from Jeroen's mails. That was the main reason
> I sent this mail, not because I think or feel that the line is there.

No. It's GNU/Linux on one side, the GNU system on the other side and
BSD on the third side. Those are 3 different operating systems. Debian
wants to be package those. It not that is one operating system.

> After all, I'm not involved in the Hurd port in any way.

You don't have to be involved, just apply common sense.
> The way I understand Jeroen's mails is "GNU Coding standards are the way
> to go; everything else is braindead". If that understanding is incorrect,
> then forget everything I mailed on the subject; if not, then I feel you
> (Jeroen) should implement GNU's coding standards somewhere else. Debian
> has its own "Coding Standards", and they're different from what GNU
> says. The Hurd port should implement Debian's policy wherever possible,
> and issue policy amendments through proper channels where not instead of
> saying that Debian's policy is braindead, and ignoring it.

The GNU Coding Standards are the way to go in the GNU system. I don't
really care much about what other operating systems do, but we have to
specify which directories packages in Debian use.

I did not say that everything else is braindead. I said that BSD
wasn't braindead for example. I think that the FHS is braindead and I
have my reasons for thinking that. I think the GNU Coding Standards
are much better. I have the right to think and say that, that's called
free speech.

And indeed Debian policy needs to be changed. But before a change can
happen, there needs to be a consensus. If you don't agree with each
other, you need to discuss those issues, exactly what I want to do,
but when I try to I get called a troll.

I wanted to make the FHS compatible with the GNU Coding Standards, but
because I already saw what the people on debian-devel thought about
libexec and other things, I don't really feel like going to those
closed-minded FHS people to change their opinion. I will be treated as
a fool anyhow, just like here.

And the common opinion here is that the FHS should be used for the GNU
system. I'm not going to fuck up the GNU system with the FHS, just
because the Debian dictators think the GNU system should be exactly
like GNU/Linux. I'm a Hurd developer because the Hurd is different, I
want to keep it different. It doesn't make sense to make the GNU
system totally the same as GNU/Linux, we could better develop
GNU/Linux then.

Instead of changing the FHS or Debian, I'm going to implement the GNU
Coding standards somewhere else. I build a GNU/Linux from scratch
once, it's not that hard and it's even easier with GNU because of the
consistency of "./configure --prefix=;make;make install" the GNU
system has.

I wanted to change Debian, but I walked to a wall of arrogant
closed-minded people with no time and those people have all the power
over Debian. I gave up, it's just wasting time. And I'm not the only
one who thinks like this, I'm just the only one who shouts it in the
hope it will change in the future.

> Again, this is based on what I understood from Jeroen's mails, not on
> anything else.

You was in the right direction. I hope I clarified everything for

Maybe there is hope for Debian if there are enough people like
you. You can at least discuss with somebody with a different opinion
without automatically going into flame mode. But I'm afraid all such
people will gave up sooner or later because of those closed-minded

It's not that I want to fight against Debian. I want to cooperate, but
I'm not going to give up my ideals for that.

Jeroen Dekkers
Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org  IRC ID: jeroen@openprojects
GNU supporter - http://www.gnu.org

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