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Re: where do NEW packages go?



On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 09:17:06PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2002, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> 
> > Sometimes they give some useless "Think about me/us" mail when somebody
> > has some critic. But technically they always manage to reamin totally
> > obscure. It's just that we need to think about them but are not
> > allowed to help them. It would work better if it was the other way
> > around. :)
> 
> Those who know how to do it know how to do several things.  They are part of
> several groups(ftp-master, owner@bugs, buildd, security, nm).  Only those that
> are in the know, and have proven they are trustworthy, have been able to fill
> these roles.

Joined the cabal, you mean? You probably see it different because you
are part of some groups, but this is how I see it. You still didn't
manage to show it's different. It would be nice if reality was different...
 
> The software these groups use is all available for everyone to see, so others
> can figure out how it works, if they are willing.  However, what generally
> happens is that some outside group sees something not occuring to their
> liking, and then the following happens:
> 
> s = statement, a = answer
> 
> s: foo is broken, let's fix it.
>  a: no it's not, it works fine.
> s: yes it is
>  a: <no answer, silence>
> time passes
> s: I can help, how do I help?
>  a: <silence>  -- this happens because those doing the work are too busy to
>     spoon feed everyone, and some have been burned in the past doing just
>     this.
>  a: Look <here>, <there>, and <the other place>, and learn how it works.
> s: <suddnely no more offers of help>

Read the mail from Marcus to Manoj how it really goes. I know about 3
cases that it happened like Marcus described: arch handling, bts arch
tags and apt-i18n. I guess there are more where I don't know about.

> > But what has the whole release process to do with an unreleased architecture?
> 
> Debian is a whole group.  Please stop trying to fragment it.

Is this your only argument? So we have to stop developping because
some other part is in a freeze for a few months? This is ridiculous.

> > > Debian is Debian is Debian.  If Debian is ported to Linux, then Linux must be
> > > modified to fit the Debian OS.  Same for the Debian port to hurd.
> >
> > GNU is GNU. Debian is just a distribution. If you want to have the
> > GNU/Hurd OS in Debian, you need to change Debian to make that
> > possible. The GNU OS isn't the same as GNU/Linux. If it was, it
> > wouldn't be called different.
> 
> No, you don't change the whole to make the part fit it.  You change the part
> to fit in with the whole.
> 
> Someone here has backwards thinking.

Someone thinks adding an OS in Debian is the same as adding the 25th editor.
 
> > > And you couldn't have done it at a worse time.  CIM, real freeze, release.
> > > All have been going on.  If you do not know that, then you really are living
> > > in your own world, isolated from the rest of society by your own accord.
> >
> > It's not that Marcus didn't told me about what happened the years
> > before the real freeze. It wasn't a very long story BTW, because not
> > much actually happened.
> 
> What does this have to do with what I said?

You claim it's at a worse time. I say that this is already going on
for 3 years.

> > Oh, some I don't get respect because I haven't changed Debian? But I
> > can't change Debian because I'm not allowed to because I haven't
> > earned respect yet. And because I haven't earned respect I'm not
> > allowed to critize. Is that what you mean? Then I choose for the
> > status quo of not wanting to join an orginazation which works that
> > way.
> 
> You'll find this is always the case everywhere.  You have to earn the respect
> of your peers, both in software, the business world, and even with your
> friends, before you are allowed to intrude on their world.

No. At least when I came to the Hurd, they treated me as their
equal. As someone who could improve their software. From the first
day, they treated me with respect. Even when I have a totally
different opinion or say something really stupid, they still get
respect.

A few months ago somebody mailed to debian-hurd with a problem with
windows. He was treated with respect and somebody pointed him to the
microsoft website and somebody else said something humorous. We, Hurd
developers, who think non-free software is immoral, even treated
somebody who wrote to the wrong mailinglist about a problem using
non-free software with respect.

When I came to Debian, I wanted to fix the problems of the Hurd
port. I subscribed to debian-devel, lurked for a while and then gave
my opinion about some subjects. I immediately got flamed about
that. And then everytime I wanted to start a discussion about
something, I got treated like a fool, because I'm having a different
opinion. And I still am treated like that.

Do you see the difference between the Hurd community and the Debian
community?

> This is all common sense, which it appears that you are severly lacking.

If you continue with personal attacks, I'll start with it too.

Jeroen Dekkers
-- 
Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org  IRC ID: jeroen@openprojects
GNU supporter - http://www.gnu.org

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