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Re: ITP: squeak-vm, squeak-image, squeak-sources -- A highly portable Smaltalk system

shouldn't all this be done on debian-legal??

On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 08:53:17PM +0100, Stephen Stafford wrote:
> Hash: SHA1
> On Saturday 02 June 2001  7:37 pm, John Hasler wrote:
> > Wolfgang writes:
> > > That "weirdness" is a right.
> >
> > If you think about it carefully you will see that it is exactly the
> > opposite.
> >
> > > So if Apple asks to give up that right to be able to use that
> > > program, then it is a restriction.
> >
> > Apple is asking no one to give up anything.  They are merely
> > attempting to comply with the law.
> >
> > > And as such this license is not free.
> >
> > Then neither is the GPL.
> I am almost sorry I started this thread now.
> Nobody ever claimed that the license was free in the DFSG sense (it is 
> most assuredly non-free because of the restrictions on distribution of 
> fonts).  I am more interested in whether it can be packaged for the 
> archive even as non-free (in fact non-us/non-free).  Following some 
> discussion on OPN earlier I am not so sure that it can.
> as a reminder, the license is available at:
> 	http://people.debian.org/~bagpuss/copyright
> for anyone who wishes to look at it.
> 5. Indemnification. You agree to indemnify and hold Apple harmless
>    from any and all damages, liabilities, costs and expenses (including
>    but not limited to attorneys' fees and costs of suit) incurred by
>    Apple as a result of any claim, proceeding, and/or judgment to the
>    extent it arises out of or is connected in any manner with the
>    operation, use, distribution or modification of Modified Software, or
>    the combination of Apple Software or Modified Software with other
>    programs; provided that Apple notifies Licensee of any such claim or
>    proceeding in writing, tenders to Licensee the opportunity to defend
>    or settle such claim or proceeding at Licensee's expense, and
>    cooperates with Licensee in defending or settling such claim or
>    proceeding.
> aj and others seemed to be pretty worried about clause 5 of the 
> license. What *I* think it means is 'if you want to sue us then you 
> have to pay our lawyers fees in order to do so'.  However I could see 
> the point that some people made who thought that this clause may entail 
> Debian being held accountable and responsible for any legal costs 
> incurred by Apple in any action pertaining to the software.
> If this *is* the case and Debian could be seen to be responsible and 
> have to pay up under this clause even if Debian were not the plaintif 
> in the particular case then I agree with the feeling I got from people 
> on OPN tonight in that it probably should not be packaged and 
> distributed by us. (which is a damn shame as the packaging is all 
> finished and ready to go now, and I seriously do feel that it would be 
> a useful and valuable addition to the archive).
> I am attempting to find a contact email address for someone at Apple 
> who might be able to clarify the point, however I am not holding out 
> much hope of finding one before Monday (a search through the Apple 
> website failed to find any likely looking address.  I do have a phone 
> number for Apple UK customer relations, so I am hoping that they might 
> be able to furnish me with some contact information.  I will have to 
> wait for office hours to contact them though).  If anyone happens to 
> already have contact information of this nature then I would be glad to 
> hear from them.
> In the meantime any thoughts anyone has on the matter are welcome (if 
> flames then please direct them to my personal mailbox and not to the 
> list.  I am thick skinned but some people just get bored and annoyed at 
> all the flamey noise)
>    [*thinking of asking for a debian-flames list*]
> Thanks, and apologies for the flames some have seen fit to fan from 
> what was supposed to be a fairly simple ITP and request for advice 
> concerning the license.
> - -- 
> Stephen Stafford
> GPG public key on request
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> =BP52
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