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Re: 2.4.x Kernel, ECN And Problem Websites

On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:05:03AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:16:30PM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > It may be a minor catch-22, but ECN is currently so broken, that only power
> > users should be using it, as the rest will just continue flooding the
> > netfilter list with "Netfilter breaks all my websites!". [OK, ECN isn't
> > broken, the routers are, I know, but same effect. ECN breaks stuff]. So, if
> > you're smart enough to know that you want ECN, and smart enough to
> > understand the consequences, you should be compiling your own kernel.
> Uh, no, ECN is not broken at all. What is broken are all of these
> routers that depend on reserved bits in the TCP/IP packets. ECN itself
> does not break things, it merely shows other things that are broken.

PEOPLE! I KNOW THIS! Please, stop telling me.
> If we left everything to "you have to be smart enough", then let's just
> leave out the entire linux kernel, most of the software in Debian, and
> go for a minimum cygnus install. Let's just ditch all non-i386
> architectures. Hell, let's get rid of everything that might potentially
> break your system, unless you are smart enough to use it. You know,
> things like X that can fry a monitor, or mkfs that might trash your
> harddrive.

Have a towel to wipe your mouth, there's still a bit of sarcasm dripping
out. I love the humourous exaggeration. Couldn't stop laughing.
> > No way should we be pushing ECN to the masses. It should stay in the domain
> > of people like DaveM, until routers get fixed.
> If we did that, then maybe 4 people would be using it (there's not many
> people in the same class as davem).
> This needs to be pushed to the masses. If we watited for all of these
> vendors to fix their equipment, and all of these corporations to apply
> those fixes, before spreading ECN, then DaveM might be the only person
> who ever uses it, and nothing will get fixed.
> That fact that things get broken, and people complain, is one reason
> that things get fixed.

Wow, I can see it now. Stuff "Debian: When the code matters more than the
commercials", why not have "Debian: We put stuff that exploits braindeadness
and makes chunks of the net inaccessable by default" on t-shirts! Yeah!

-d, who can't be stuffed reading any more of -devel this morning

Daniel Stone

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