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Re: Developer Behavior

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 10:17:42AM -0600, Vince Mulhollon wrote:
> Some Eray quotes, one paragraph of advice for Eray, and a possibly useful
> idea at the end for everyone.

I think you are grossly overestimating Eray's desire to work well with
others, his ability to contribute anything of substance Debian, or both.

He's promised before to write code to back up some of grandiose ideas (at
one point saying something to the effect that he wouldn't get involved in a
big discussion again until he had working code to demonstrate).  He has
fallen through.

He's promised before to submit more informative and better-researched bug
reports.  He continues to fail to do so.

As you noted, he holds others to a standard of conduct to which he regards
himself immune.

He is unwilling to hold even non-concrete discussions in a semantic context
appropriate for the general body of Debian Developers, instead preferring
his own private definitions for words, and drawing things out interminably
with those who show patience with him until they finally tire of linguistic
and philosophical shell games.

He plays fast and loose with the truth, for instance justifying his action
at time A based on the events at time B, where A precedes B.  This is just
plain stupid; either Eray is, or he thinks everyone else is.

Finally, he is just generally annoying.

Some of these faults, among others, we can (and do) tolerate among other
developers, because they actually make contributions to the Debian Project,
and there tend to be areas within which one can have a rational discussion
with them.  I put up with other developers venting their spleens if they'll
put up with me doing the same, and this approach seems to work well.  (Some
folks have such hot spots  that you stay away from them, such as discussing
spam-prevention policies with me or Craig Sanders, the possible non-divine
status of anything Emacs with Manoj, etc.)  However with Eray everything
appears to be a hot spot -- if you challenge or correct him on any point
whatsoever, he does one of three things:

  * babbles on incoherently, totally ignoring your point
  * whines, bitches, moans, and complains that you are not fit to be a
    Debian developer
  * utters some token apology or acknowledgement, and then proceeds as if
    you hadn't made a point in the first place, leaving his own behavior
    completely unchanged

I don't know if it's solipsism, narcissism, or just general immaturity, but
I don't think Eray is quite ready to make any meaningful contributions to
the Debian project.  Perhaps he is better off working by himself on things
like GNU sather, and should leave the Debian packaging to someone who can
interface effectively with other Debian developers a measurable part of the

G. Branden Robinson             |           Measure with micrometer,
Debian GNU/Linux                |           mark with chalk,
branden@debian.org              |           cut with axe,
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |           hope like hell.

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