Compatibility: people and packages (was Re: ITP: debwrap)
Hi :) and Happy New Something :)
Can we take the word "ugly" out of this discussion? Please, let's work
together, and alter items in packages so they work together. See below.
> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:00:49 +0900
> To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> From: tad@omoikane.co.jp
> Subject: Re: ITP: debwrap
>
> Changwoo Ryu wrote:
> > IMO the idea of debwrap, not the source code, is an ugly hack. Trying
> > to be too compatible always leads to an dirty hack.
By the way... "too compatible" does not exist for me... there exists
compatible, and there exists not compatible. I think it's always
possible to break a pair of concepts into pieces sufficiently descrete
that corresponding pieces are either compatible with each other or not.
I also think that breaking the same pair of concepts down in different
ways can increase the number of compatible pieces.
> > Debwrap just
> > wraps the problematic packages; the better solution is to fix the
> > packages.
Agreed. Efforts should be directed at packages that would otherwise
need to be "wrapped". People aware of debconf (this -should- include
all debian developers) are working on their packages.
> Goal of debwrap is not universal solution for reducing interaction
> of each packge, but a help who want to collect limited set of
> package and to prepare his own administative setting for it.
Ok, so if it is not meant as a permanent solution, why put it in the
archive? Howbout make it available on a web site?
Because you are a developer, you can put it in a web page off
www.debian.org. I have stuff there that I since packaged, links to
some other pages and to one of my major projects.
This is not to say you shouldn't work on debwrap; someone in this
discussion said to let the debwrap author have his freedom. Fine! And
you don't need anyone's permission. No one has said, or will say, that
you or anyone else cannot work on it.
Debconf is meant as a perm solution, and it is hoped that people will
adopt debconf. The maintainer is not presently attempting to establish
a policy wrt the use of debconf because policy is really intended as
a record of common practice among developers, placed there to make
things work together. The debconf maintainer is waiting for people
to make up their own mind. If debconf is consensually accepted, the
time will have come to establish policy for future packages.
Debconf is also very young. Things don't all work yet, and concepts
are still in creation. It's too early for debconf to become common
practice, but its maintainer is hoping. It is also hoped that people
will look at debconf and add things to it that work compatibly with
it. All developers should look at it, IMO. Let's all try to make it
work.
Debian needs and wants things that work well. The reason that I initially
chose to use the debian distribution is that it works. The reason I
continue to choose to run debian, is that problems in the installation
are easy to solve, especially when it involves packages and their
configuration. My voice is one of many important ones in this regard
for many reasons, some of which include my use of debian in a college
department computer lab serving about 1500 CIS students per semester.
All the machines I run work on a consistant basis. I am part of the
reason for that, because I run them. Debian is part of that reason due
to its stability, fortitude and resillience. This makes my admin job
easier. Please don't do things that would take any of those away. If
the concepts of debwrap are of value, then they should be added in a
compatible way. Temporary solutions don't belong in a permanent archive
which will be copied onto several million CDs. This goes tenfold for
temporary solutions that do not interoperate.
Placing debwrap on a web page is an act of sharing, but placing it in the
distribution in the face of debconf is an act of competition. If that
is what you intend, then it is likely you won't remove the package from
the distribution. Ultimately, you have to make that decision. Is it
possible to come up with a debwrap which uses and cooperates with debconf?
Is it also possible you could join the work on debconf?
-Jim
---
Jim Lynch Finger for pgp key
as Laney College CIS admin: jim@laney.edu http://www.laney.edu/~jim/
as Debian developer: jwl@debian.org http://www.debian.org/~jwl/
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