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Re: Debian Menus (Was: Re: [PROPOSED] moving the menu hierarchy into debian policy)

Quoting "Juergen A. Erhard" <jae@ilk.de>:

[snip first part]
> [SNIP Chris# response]
> I'd propose (if I were a developer), to *not* put everything under the
> sun into the default menu.
> Instead, we should make it editable... such that, when the user first
> opens the menu, there are some (limited) defaults, like, one *std* app
> for each category (or maybe two)[1].

I disagree with this. For the common purpose, I just don't install thing
I don't need. Must entries in my menus are entries that I need. They're 
just lost in the jungle of a too much generalize section like Tools or 

> There needs to be default entries/menus in the root menu
>   + Help, with contents as Chris mentioned.

Agreed, that's one good section, at least.

>   + Session or Exit or s.th. like this.  I'm pretty annoyed with Exit
>     (and Restart) being in WindowManagers, where every user will look
>     for them (my old AfterStep .steprc had a root menu Exit).

I don't think this is control by the menu system in general. I think
it's a setup made by each WM maintainer for the menu system. e.g. E
get it's logout in the root menu. With a Default Apps menu, a Gnome
menu, *and in the Gnome menu*, the Debian menu.

>   + Config This Menu... okay, maybe a Config menu, with entries for
>     all relevant stuff.  Including, of course, the general Debian menu
>     editor.

Gnome has such an entry but not all WM follow this strategy. I agree
however that having a Debian menu editor will be a good thing. Take
in mind however that we can't make an editor for all aspect of menus
in all WM (especially for specific functions like exit or restart).

> I think this would make much more sense than the current `group by
> where it is in FTP'.  We really should group by what it does, and be
> more intelligent about this.

Hum... isn't what the menu system currently allow? As far as I know,
the current division of the menus is slightly different from the one 
of the package sections.

> Yes, I know there's no such thing as a Debian Menu Editor.  But I
> think the menu system needs to support editing/customizing the menu
> hierarchy for this to be really useful.
> The menu that is displayed needs to be separate (on a per-user basis)
> >From the menu hierarchy in which packages install their entries/menus.

Completely agreed with you. Currently, you can get a per-user menu but
they're no easy way to add the Default menu in it (Or I don't know it).
In addition, the users menu are not update System-wide, update-menu should
be run by the user each time he want to update. I think this should be
an option.

> The menu editor would then show the hierarchy of installed
> apps/tools/etc, and the menu as currently configured, and the user
> could copy entries or whole menus between them...

For a good implementation of the menu system, I suggest you to take a
look at the KDE menu editor. I think also the gnome system have something
similar (I don't try it yet).

> Also, this would make adding locally installed packages easier.

For this, equivs is still the best.

> What do y'all think?
> Anyway,
> Bye, J
> [1]We should generalize mime-types and alternatives: both are
> priority-based.  For the menu hierarchy, this means the top priority
> apps of each category (and the top categories) go into the default
> menu.

Please, don't mix them all. Program I used for viewing documents
[mime-types], aren't the same that I used currently [alternatives] and
I still want all of them in my menus. When I used one more often then
the other, either I add a special local menu entry, or add a Dock/panel/
launcher/shortcut entry on my desktop.

> - -- 
> Jürgen A. Erhard      eMail: jae@ilk.de      phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
> 	 My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/~Juergen_Erhard
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> 	 Win32 has many known work arounds. For example, Linux.
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> =Zlwk

Thanks for your comments. :)

Fabien Ninoles        Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers
aka Corbeau aka le Veneur                    Debian GNU/Linux maintainer
E-mail:                                                    fab@tzone.org
WebPage:                                    http://www.tzone.org/~fabien
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