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Re: Thoughts about GIMP Logo Contest [long]

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I usually prefer to nest my reply with the original message to
put the text so near the relevant parts as possible. I often also
remove the parts of the original that are of no relevance for the
reply. But since I agree with all written and the replied to
message is so long I will put my reply first and only include the
original for reference.

This was the best article I've read concerning the logo-contest.
I can only say that I agree on most (if not all) of your
arguments. When I first saw the announcement of the contest I was
about to write one myself, but due to lack of time, and due to
other things with higher priorities that came up, I never did.

The (IMHO) most important point is that even though GIMP is a
wonderful program that I use a lot, it is bitmap-based. One of
the more important characteristics of an good logo is
scalability. A vector based image is simple to scale with good
results. A bitmaped image (consisting of pixels in different
colors/shades) you have to edit after you have resized it, or
even completely repaint in the preferred size.  If it is a simple
logo consisting of well defined fields in single colors it would
be doable to "repaint" as a vector based image (see Captain
Blue-eye e.g.), but then I see no reason to restrict the
contestants to use a program that is mainly intended for image

Once again I can only say that I fully agree with Joey and think
that a parallel contest that allows the usage of any free
programs should be initiated.

Best regards
Fredrik Ax

On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Martin Schulze wrote:

>  The day before yesterday at lunch time I took a look at the list of
>  submissions for our new logo and was *very* dissappointed.  I went to
>  lunch to meet a nice girl with a very bad mood.  I had to realize
>  that at least 70% of all current submissions fail simple rules for
>  logos - and our own rules.  The remaining max. 30% didn't look like I
>  could vote for them, although there were one to three that are
>  acceptable.
>  . I wonder if it was a good idea to use the GIMP team for a logo
>    contest.  I've gotton the impression that they are graphishms (sp?)
>    but no designer or constructors who would be needed to design a
>    logo.
>    I've gotton the impression that these people are experts in
>    graphics, drawings or paintings, they know how to "play" with
>    techniques, shades and colours but don't know anything about
>    logos.
>    No harm but these people are to design our logo?  I must have
>    understood something wrong - or somebody else...
>  . I refuse to accept that it was a good idea to insist of using the
>    GIMP to create the logo.  This makes it impossible or at least
>    difficult for people who have good ideas but lack skills on using
>    GIMP.  However I accept that we insist on using GPL-free programs.
>  . I refuse to accept that it is a good idea to depend on scalability
>    of the logo but insist on using a bitmap-based program for its
>    creation.  Bitmaps are not well scalable by definition, vector
>    oriented things are, like xfig-based or postscript ones for
>    example.
>  . I don't think that it was a good idea to insist on people
>    submitting two logo ideas (official and liberal use).  Contrary to
>    that I would feel better if only one logo would need to be
>    submitted and we, the Debian group, would modify it to create an
>    official and a liberal version.
>  . I don't think that we don't need to manipulate the winning logo.
>    Thus I believe that a submission which only impresses an idea, that
>    is only a preview but needs to be manipulated by a person with
>    proper skills, would be fine as well.
>  . I don't think that depending on one particular free program to
>    create a logo for a free project is a good decision.
>  . It is unclear to me if we need to use the winner of this contest
>    for our new logo or if we can continue searching.
>  . Thus I have *BIG* difficulties accepting this logo contest.
>  Unfortunately I wasn't able to spend time on this thing prior to the
>  contest.  I saw that Wichert was handling it and trusted him.  Maybe
>  I shouldn't have done this but jumped into it before.  I fear that
>  now it is too late and I should have done something before.
>  I have to admit that I have never paid attention to a GIMP logo
>  contest before.  Graphics is something I *really* can't do but other
>  people are wonderful with.  So I only accept that it exists and
>  that's it.
>  Since I was extremely dissappointed by the current submissions I sat
>  down, took half a dozen of hours of time which I couldn't afford,
>  spent them on drawings, circles, triangles, boxes, rectangles, kites,
>  graphs etc. pp. to provide some logos on my own.  I'm everything but
>  a graphic guy.  So this is a scary situation that we came so far that
>  even *I* am trying to design possible logos for our project.
>  Anyway, I even was able to come up with a few ideas which look
>  possible for me.  Even two people thought that two of them are good,
>  maybe they are, I don't know, at least they *are* logos.  I even was
>  able to transfer them into binary, by using the power combination of
>  xfig and xpaint.
>  Now the problem is that I can't submit them, since I haven't used
>  GIMP.  This looks very stupid to me.  Even worse I don't seem to be
>  able to create them with the GIMP.  I already tried that.
>  Additionally GIMP is not a program that was invented to play with
>  geometrical material but with image processing.  This is somewhat
>  rediculous since only images are very detailed, use much colours and
>  stuff.  A logo isn't detailed nor uses much colours.  So why
>  depending on the GIMP.
>  Depending on the GIMP excludes people who - like me - came up with
>  some useful (at least I hope that they are) ideas but aren't able to
>  turn them into binary data by using a non-vector based program.
>  Now I am in a big dilemma.  First, none (or only very few) of the
>  current submissions meet my own guidelines so I can't feel happy with
>  them.  Second my own ideas weren't done by using GIMP, only by two
>  other free programs.
>  For me the question now is what to do?
>  Shall I spend some 40 hours to learn how to use GIMP and how to
>    redesign my ideas?  This would be about 14 evenings on which I
>    wouldn't be able to do real work like other regular Debian-related
>    work I should do, write free software, propagate free software,
>    organize meetings, talks and such.
>  Shall I submit my ideas regardless of the fact that they weren't made
>    by GIMP and that the GIMP people might reject it for that very
>    reason.
>  Shall I find people with proper skills who are willing to rework my
>    previews and do everything entirely with GIMP.  Well, I already
>    tried this today and spent 2.5 hours only to find out that GIMP is
>    the worst program to do this.  We haven't converted a single preview.
>  Or shall I simply resign and thing the world is evil?
> Regards,
> 	Joey
> -- 
> We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds.
>         - Linus Torvalds
> Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

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