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Re: RANT: "slow" release cycles my @$$!!!! (Was: Gnome to be removed from debian?)

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On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:50:18 -0600, John Goerzen wrote:

>RedHat 5.0 was out before Debian 2.0 was.  RedHat 5.2 is now out, and we do
>not yet have Debian 2.1 out.  Something seems wrong with your figures.

    No, there is nothing wrong with my figures.  You did read what I wrote,
correct?  I said, "First mention of Red Hat 5.0".  They didn't annouce it
explicitely on their news page.  Then considering there is ~10 months from
5.0 - 5.2 and I listed 2.0-present as ~7 months, this seems to jive with
what you've said.

>What I am griping about is the long *FREEZE* cycle.  Please pay attention. 

    Please pay attention yourself, I never mentioned you, you just happened
to be the proverbian straw.  That is why I said people, in the plural.

>This is incorrect; Debian 2.1 will already be behind others when it is
>released -- no kernel 2.2, no X 3.3.3, for instance.

    "Oooooo, I'm sooooo scaaarrred."  I don't care if the freeze is 1 year,
1 month or 1 week, we will always be behind on something because when you
have 2000+ packages (am I overstating on that?  1,500 packages?)
*something*, *somewhere* is going to be released during the freeze to make
it obsolete.  X 3.3.3, so what?  X looks to be running for for years before
3.3.3.  I'm sure there is nice support in 3.3.3 but I don't think there is
anything mission critical.  Same with Kernel 2.2.  

    Personally, I think it is a shame the latest Listar isn't in there.  But
that is because I run a lot of mailing lists on Listar and there have been a
lot of good changes in Listar lately.  Get some perspective.

>Then you do not read elsewhere very often.  I am using potato on all my
>machines; do you think that I would be complaining about the long freeze

    Then you shouldn't be complaining at all.
>I am complaining for the sake of the non-developers out there.

    They can complain just as well on their own, thank you.
>I hear a lot of comments in the LUG, calling Debian like Microsoft in that
>we never get a release or even a freeze done on time.  People are switching
>to RedHat because Debian is so out-of-date -- a byproduct of the long
>freeze. If we actually did the freeze like we all agreed it should be done,
>things would be fine.  But we are not.  The freeze stretches out over many
>months. This is a serious problem.

    So what is the alternative then, huh?  I'd much rather be called
Microsoft for being called "slow" when, in fact, we're not.  In fact, if
you're hearing these comments you're now informed enough to cite FACTS back
to these people that we're no slower than other distributions.  But what
you'd rather have is that the releases were faster and more bugs were
present.  Then we'd be called Microsoft again!

    I'd rather be a month or two slower and a hell of a lot more stable than
a month or two faster and a hell of a lot more unstable.  And for anyone who
dares to call Debian as slow as Microsoft remind them that they go 3-5 YEARS
between major releases of their OS. 

    Get some perspective.

>> people, IMHO, will never be satisified with the release cycle no matter how
>> short it is.  They should be riding the unstable tree.

>Then you, again, are not paying attention.

    I am paying attention a lot more than you are, that much is certain.  I
doubt you ever even compared the release cycles of the different

- -- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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