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Re: RH and GNOME



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On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, David Welton wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 08:51:17PM -0500, Petra, Kevin J Poorman wrote:
> > On 23 Jul 1998, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> 
> > I'm sorry you feel that way. I realy do, because I am pointing out a
> > problem, but you see the problem isn't in software, it's in the attitude
> > and mindset of developers like you.
> 
> ...of developers like him that we *HAVE* Debian.

I understand that, and for that I thank him and others like him.

>  
> > >  Petra,> what we need to realise is that ppl now want everything given
> > >  Petra,> to them on a gold plater, yesterday. ppl and that includes
> > >  Petra,> managers and IS workers, don't want to take the time to read
> > >  Petra,> docs, or configure things.
> > > 
> > > 	I think I do not want to be busting my chops for such, pardon
> > >  me, idiots. Any one who refuses to learn how to use their tools
> > >  effectively is being short sighted. I have no problem in accepting
> > >  that Windows 98 is the perfect OS for such people. 
> > 
> > ah, yes, such a selfish attitude. I'm not saying we make EVERYTHING like
> > 98, but a few things... like, installation, and manpages.
> 
> Go right ahead.  Manoj, I'm sure, would be more than happy to comment
> on the technical merits of whatever you and others create.  As far as
> selfish... you want *him* to do something *you* want?

I don't think you are understanding what I am talking about. in order for
what I am talking about to ocur, WE ALL need to change our mindsets.

> 
> > >  Petra,> We should not, comprimise our software standards, for
> > >  Petra,> "freeness". We should work to write a "Debian Standard
> > >  Petra,> licence" that is basicly gpl, without the bugs.
> > > 
> > > 	What bugs? I find the GPL to work exactly as it should. We
> > >  need a strong license that ptomotes and actively propogates free
> > >  software, and the GPL does that.
> > 
> > while I haven't memorised the entire gpl, what I have read leves me to
> > think that there are a few "bugs" in it.
> 
> For example? 

look in a seperate e-mail coming to a mail reader neer you.

> 
> > >  Petra,> We should try to mainstream Debian in any way we can, with
> > >  Petra,> ad's, banners, logo's... etc. as this will help us grow in
> > >  Petra,> the long run.
> > > 
> > > 	Umm, ok. Pray do so, if this is a major goal of yours.
> > 
> > I'm working on it, in my "spare" time
> 
> You're not the only one with time constraints:-)

I understand that.

> 
> > Can you not read english? ...
> 
> ...
> 
> > Hows that Enstien
> 
> ...
> 
> > such  a selfish and lazy attitude, why don't you help.
> 
> These kinds of comments are the antithesis of the professionalism we
> ought to be striving for in our relations on these lists.  Calling
> people like Manoj lazy is a *gross* distortion of the truth.

It is also, a gross distortion of the truth, to treat me like, a
win95-windows-gui-only-otherwise-your-a-big-fat-moron zelot. I'm not all
I'm arguing for is a better users suport base for newbies, and users, who
want to USE linux not WRITE linux. thats not so bad is it? .... Manoj is
not lazy I know that. However his attitude is lax and selfish. 

> 
> > >  Petra,> A modification to the gpl, written by a lawyer I know, would
> > >  Petra,> cost us ~45$ us. to have a completly air tight (cough)
> > >  Petra,> license that incorparates what we want without any of the
> > >  Petra,> flaws, of the gpl, or artistic.
> > > 
> > > 	I fail to find anything wrong with the BSD, Artistic, or the
> > >  GNU public licenses. What flaws? rather than repeating your original
> > >  statement, it would be edifying if you treated us to a view of what
> > >  you percieve as a deficiency. 
> > 
> > this whole kde stuff could be fixed with a simple clause to the gpl.
> 
> So why don't the KDE people add it?  They are the ones who want to
> weaken it, not us.  

in that case they would but in others.... 

> 
> To quote RMS (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-doc.html) 
> 
>    "... they judge in purely practical terms, not using freedom as a
>    criterion.  These people are entitled to their opinions, but since
>    those opinions spring from values which do not include freedom,
>    they are no guide for those of us who do value freedom."


ah, yes a quote from the demi god of software himself... well here's one
for you.

"... do unto others as you would have done unto you."

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Particle man, Particle man
Doing the things a Particle can
Whats he like? Its not important
Particle man is he a dot, or is he a speck
When He's underwater does he get wet, or does the water get him instead?
- -Particle Man, by They Might Be Giants.

- -K


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