Re: I intend to stand for the project leadership
On Sun, 28 Sep 1997, joost witteveen wrote:
> >
> > Do you consider it troublesome to answer questions put to you?
> >
> > You intend, as you say, to come forward as a project leader; well, suppose
> > I were to take hold of you as you were about to ascend the platform,
> > and were to ask you: "Ian, if you were in a battle, in whose army
> > would you rather participate, in a company with a wise general, or with
> > a foolish one? And if you were ill, would you rather have as a wise
> > physician, or an an ignorant one? It should easy to answer.
>
> Was this piece of prosa intended for for debian-devel or
> shakespear-discussion? For it seems to me, thou talkest
> rather strangely.
It has been my feeling that Ioannis is not a native speaker of English. It
also seems clear that his groundings are scholastic. One might infer (or
is that imply, I can never keep them straight) that his command of English
was accomplished through reading the "classics", yielding his wandering
prose style.
As one might have guessed, I like it. It's a nice change of pace from the
common e-mail with its mis-spelled, not to mention missing, words, and
choppy, minimalist style. I must admit that at times the flowery language
tends to obscure the point, but we each have our own obfuscation
techniques and I'm willing to let Ioannis have his ;-)
>
> I think important qualities for a debian leader are
>
> - "Getting" the free software ideal.
> - Having support of a large majority of the debian developpers.
> - Being able to make well-informed desicions about what
> routes debian should follow.
>
> In neighter of those points, I see any importance whatsoever in
> having had good teachers, having administered many companies or
> whatever. Please, understand that there is a difference between
> companies and debian: with companies, it's all about competition,
> trying to pay your employees as little as possible while making
> them still feel happy about their work. None of the skills involved
> in doing that have any value when you are a leader of Debian.
>
While I agree that Debian is not run like a corporation, (and should not
be) there are many advantages to having a clear understanding of how
corporations work. As to competition, there is a difference as well. While
in a corporation you tend to compete with your fellow employees for your
position within the company, within Free Software projects like Debian the
competition is to make our product better than what has been available
before. We, as a group, compete with the rest of the software world for
our "position" in the world, while amongst ourselves the competition is to
see how each of us can best support that effort. (such competition is
usually called cooperation)
>
> > And yet, when you declare that you want to be the Debian Director, and
> > you are going to attend to manage and restructure an organization
> > would it be right to ask if you are superior programmer, or if you are
> > inferior one? No, for this would seem ridiculous. Instead, we
> > should inquire about your management skills: what is your education,
> > who were your teachers, and what companies you have administered.
> > I should suppose that you will be able to answer questions of this sort.
> >
> > Tell us then, what are your qualifications as an administrator. For if it
> > turns out that you are only a good programmer that would not be an
> > advantage.
>
> > I have no more to say.
>
> OK, that's good. I don't think you "get" the free software ideal,
> if you want our leader to be somebody with lots of expericene
> with administring companies. And I don't think people who don't "get"
> the free software ideal should be very vocal on any debian discussion list.
>
I don't agree with Ioannis here. I _do_ think that software engineering
competence is an important quality in a leader for the Debian Project. I
don't think that anyone would argue that Ian J. is ignorant in this
requard ;-) Everyone involved with this project is technically oriented.
It has been my experience that technical folks seem to have a rather naive
approach to politics, (myself included) so we are drawing from a pretty
shallow pool here to start with. If we reject candidates because they
don't meet some arbitrary standard of political competence, we aren't
going to get anyone elected.
At the same time I can't agree with Joost's comments completely either.
This concept of "getting" Free Software, while I understand the idiom, I
don't see the point. This seems to me to be a somewhat "religious"
attitude (Only true believers may participate) that is no more condusive
to the goals of Free Software than the insistance that no money be made
from it is. (sorry for the twisty turny sentance)
While I agree, that folks who don't "get" it are less likely to be
elected, I don't agree that we should reject these people outright from
even running! (Not that we have seen an "objectionable" candidates yet)
I agree, that we all agreed, that what we wanted was a dictatorship. This
is not the Totalitarian government some have made it out to be. While we
all agree that Bruce is the acknowledged dictator of the project, we
always understand that his "power" comes from this agreement, not from
some arbitrary, absolute, control over our individual lives. (As is the
case in a "Military" dictatorship, for instance) Given these facts, I
would have no problem electing an "infidel" to this office. I would see it
as an education experience that could sway their beliefs to the "more
realistic" world view, i.e. they might "get" it!
Waiting is,
Dwarf
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