Please work out with Guy Maor (loginutils maintainer) which login to make standard. I think I will have the set-up script start the system with shadow enabled, and let the user take it out if they must by removing /etc/shadow . Thanks Bruce -- Clinton isn't perfect, but I like him a lot more than Dole. Please register to vote, and vote for Democrats. Bruce Perens AB6YM Bruce@Pixar.com http://www.hams.com/