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Re: Bug#943027: fretsonfire: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye

Am 28.03.20 um 04:40 schrieb Sandro Tosi:
>>> I agree. It's unreasonable to block this removal further. fretsonfire
>>> is not a standalone package, but a part of a long chain of packages
>>> affected by the Py2 removal and this can't wait longer.
>> I completely disagree here. Fretsonfire is one package affected by the
>> Py2 removal but certainly not the only one. If it was the only one, then
>> there would be absolutely no question because the Py2 removal is more
>> important than a single package. But it is not the only one. There is
>> still a lot of time left, we are still in the middle of the release cycle.
> if everybody would behave like that, we're end up with 3400 packages
> still depending on python2.. there is time, yes, but it's less than
> you may think. Do you realize Moritz replied to a message i sent on
> Feb 1, which is 2 months ago: did something happened in between on the
> side of porting fretsonfire to python3? did you do *anything* to port
> it? how much more are we supposed to wait for that to magically
> happen?

I suggest that you either read my blog [1] or subscribe to
pkg-games-devel to understand what we as a team and I have been doing.
As a matter of fact we have fixed several Py2 removal bugs by porting
games to Python 3 already. Naturally there are only so many contributors
who can work on so many packages in their free time and there is no
guarantee in which order certain bugs are fixed. That means if you don't
contribute to the solution of the problem in other ways than simply
demanding the removal of a package, then it will take as long as it takes.

>> What really saddens me is that people who either don't contribute or
>> very little to Debian Games try to force their agenda one year before we
>> freeze for Bullseye. I find that unacceptable to be honest. It's a slap
>> in the face for contributors who have already ported several games to
>> Python 3 and to be honest, it's a reason for me to quit this team
>> altogether if you remove fretsonfire one year before the freeze.
> if you want to quit, it's your choice obviously, but i'm not sure
> rage-quitting ever worked. You're part of a distribution, and weather
> you like it or not, every package as a "weight" in it, currently
> fretsonfire is preventing progress in the direction the distribution
> has decided to go, which is to remove python2.

Debian is a collaborative effort to create a free operating system.
There are always technical and social implications. On the technical
side we have a release goal to remove Python 2 which is a huge
undertaking because thousands of packages depend on Python 2. There are
several possible solutions to achieve that goal including porting to
Python 3 or patching packages. Removing packages without the consent of
the maintainer in the middle of a release cycle is considered to be
antisocial. Python 2 is not the only problem, we also receive reports
about failing packages because of changes to SDL2 or the C/C++ compiler.
All these issues have to be addressed in time and your bug report is not
anything special.

> i wasnt aware that being part of the games team was a requirement to
> tell you that fretsonfire is not good enough to be kept in Debian in
> its current form, i thought being a DD was a good enough quality
> already, and you already had 2 DDs telling you that. more on a
> personal note, this package forces me to keep 2 packages i maintain in
> debian, which i would be happily get RM'ed - how long should i wait
> for you to start porting fretonfire?

Being part of the games team is a requirement to file removal bug
reports as the maintainer. Again requesting the removal of a package in
the middle of the release cycle without the consent of the maintainer is
rude and antisocial. If you don't want to maintain your packages any
longer than I suggest you orphan them, so that I can take care of them
until we freeze for Bullseye. If fretsonfire bug 943027 has not been
fixed by then and the release team decides that we go ahead with the Py2
removal, then fretsonfire and its dependencies will be removed and I
will request the removal myself.

>>> If anyone ports it to Py3 until Bullseye freeze, even better. Failing
>>> that, it's still available on Flathub for every future Debian user:
>>> https://www.flathub.org/apps/details/net.sourceforge.fretsonfire
>> Sure, maybe we should just direct all of our users to flathub for all
>> our non-essential and non-important packages. Let's focus on the Linux
>> kernel, systemd, and some GNU tools only, that's the universal operating
>> system for you kids.
> you may want to watch your tone, it's becoming inappropriate and
> definitely unhelpful.

I find that funny when I have told you in a private email before to
reflect on your own behavior once in a while. If you send disrespectful
messages like that [2] then you have missed the point entirely.

Markus Koschany

P.S.: It's called sarcasm.

[1] https://gambaru.de/blog/tag/planetdebian/
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2020/02/msg00003.html

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